Post-game situations (ASA)

[NCASAUmp]

Got a question for everyone. What, if anything, can be done about gross unsportsmanlike behavior after the last out of the game has been caught? Consider the following situation...

Third out is caught, players exit the dugout for the post-game handshake. Before umpires have left the playing field, one player, upset with the game, approaches the umpire, leaving him nowhere to go, and proceeds to hurl obscenities directed towards the umpire.

In years past, if I remember correctly, Rule 10 detailed when the umpires' authority began (when entering the dugout to check equipment) and when it ended (after vacating the playing field). However, the 2007 rule book does not appear to have this section anymore. Am I missing it? If so, where is it? If it was removed, can anyone enlighten me as to why this section was removed?

[wadeintothem]

leave...

quickly.

That section was inadvertently left out of the rule book while they were rewriting rules they didnt want you to change your enforcement of.

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Got a question for everyone. What, if anything, can be done about gross unsportsmanlike behavior after the last out of the game has been caught? Consider the following situation...

Third out is caught, players exit the dugout for the post-game handshake. Before umpires have left the playing field, one player, upset with the game, approaches the umpire, leaving him nowhere to go, and proceeds to hurl obscenities directed towards the umpire.

In years past, if I remember correctly, Rule 10 detailed when the umpires' authority began (when entering the dugout to check equipment) and when it ended (after vacating the playing field). However, the 2007 rule book does not appear to have this section anymore. Am I missing it? If so, where is it? If it was removed, can anyone enlighten me as to why this section was removed?

What penalties are provided for in the league you are working?

What procedure is prescribed for reporting misconduct such as this?

Regardless, report what was said to you and the circumstances.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Got a question for everyone. What, if anything, can be done about gross unsportsmanlike behavior after the last out of the game has been caught? Consider the following situation...

Third out is caught, players exit the dugout for the post-game handshake. Before umpires have left the playing field, one player, upset with the game, approaches the umpire, leaving him nowhere to go, and proceeds to hurl obscenities directed towards the umpire.

In years past, if I remember correctly, Rule 10 detailed when the umpires' authority began (when entering the dugout to check equipment) and when it ended (after vacating the playing field). However, the 2007 rule book does not appear to have this section anymore. Am I missing it? If so, where is it? If it was removed, can anyone enlighten me as to why this section was removed?

Ejection.....If you are still acting in the capacity of the umpire (which in my opinion is until you leave the grounds), you have whatever authority you had on the field during the game as it relates to players, coaches and sportsmanship. If you weren't acting in the capacity of the umpire, the player would have no reason to address you at all.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Ejection.....If you are still acting in the capacity of the umpire (which in my opinion is until you leave the grounds), you have whatever authority you had on the field during the game as it relates to players, coaches and sportsmanship. If you weren't acting in the capacity of the umpire, the player would have no reason to address you at all.

And that's exactly what I did. Frankly, I'm surprised this player has lasted as long as he has without getting tossed by one of us. While I was umpiring on another field, I saw him throw the bat in anger to the fence. Twice. The other blues said nothing to him. Finally, this moron screwed up.

Though I was surprised last night to not be able to find that old rule. Is there any reason why it was removed? Is there anything specifically in the book to back me on this?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by jimpiano

What penalties are provided for in the league you are working?

It's usually a minimum of a 1 game suspension, but it has been known to increase, depending on the severity.

Originally Posted by jimpiano

What procedure is prescribed for reporting misconduct such as this?

A form in the scorekeepers' booth.

Originally Posted by jimpiano

Regardless, report what was said to you and the circumstances.

Already done.

[wadeintothem]

You have an ASA league where an ejection results in an additional 1 game suspension?? How is that even enforced? Do they go to the next TB tourney and make sure the coach/player is getting a hot dog and not coaching/playing?

From my view, (because we dont have that without some drawn out hearing).. just leave cuz everything else is a waste of time.. which could only be compounded by more of a waste of time if the Commish decided to hold a hearing that I had to go too.. for a ruling that would be barely (if at all) enforceable.

[JefferMC]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

You have an ASA league where an ejection results in an additional 1 game suspension?? How is that even enforced? Do they go to the next TB tourney and make sure the coach/player is getting a hot dog and not coaching/playing?

IIRC, NCASA umpires slow pitch, and I'm guessing this is a weekly beer league, so the team will probably show up next week, same bat time, same bat field.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by JefferMC

IIRC, NCASA umpires slow pitch, and I'm guessing this is a weekly beer league, so the team will probably show up next week, same bat time, same bat field.

You are correct, sir, minus the beer.

So yes, in this league, if you are tossed, you serve a minimum suspension of one game. Since we're in the playoffs and his team has now just entered the loser bracket, he probably won't be seen again until the fall. He's one of their best players, and he knows it.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

You have an ASA league where an ejection results in an additional 1 game suspension?? How is that even enforced? Do they go to the next TB tourney and make sure the coach/player is getting a hot dog and not coaching/playing?

I think every ASA league I've ever umpired in has an additional 1-game (minimum ... could be more) suspension for any ejection, player or coach. Odd that you think this is strange.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

I think every ASA league I've ever umpired in has an additional 1-game (minimum ... could be more) suspension for any ejection, player or coach. Odd that you think this is strange.

Never seen that.. we had probably 4 or 5 ejections just on our fields last weekend.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Let's get a few things straight:

ASA doesn't have leagues, however there are leagues that play under ASA rules;

Only leagues can administer additional penalties not included in the rule or code. Regardless, not an umpire's responsibility;

League ball has absolutely nothing to do with TB unless the team is within the same organization which may choose to enforce such administrative penalties;

Why are there so many..........people who insist on associating beer with SP. It must be either ignorance or feeble attempt at humor. After all, I've seen as much beer around the FP game as I have SP.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Never seen that.. we had probably 4 or 5 ejections just on our fields last weekend.

Well.... maybe you wouldn't if there were additional penalties other than just getting to leave 1 game (or 1 inning even). If the players/coaches knew they were going to miss an additional game entirely if they got ejected, they'd be motivated to cool it when an umpire warned them.

We had 2 ejections all year.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Well.... maybe you wouldn't if there were additional penalties other than just getting to leave 1 game (or 1 inning even). If the players/coaches knew they were going to miss an additional game entirely if they got ejected, they'd be motivated to cool it when an umpire warned them.

We had 2 ejections all year.

I've already had 3 by myself for unsportsmanlike conduct, and I'll admit I have a fairly high tolerance for some BS. One was due to a cuss-fest directed at me, the other two were for confrontations at the end of the game.

Then again, I also usually call 3 games per night, 4-5 nights per week. At the end of the year, it's usually about 250 games per year.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I've already had 3 by myself for unsportsmanlike conduct, and I'll admit I have a fairly high tolerance for some BS. One was due to a cuss-fest directed at me, the other two were for confrontations at the end of the game.

Then again, I also usually call 3 games per night, 4-5 nights per week. At the end of the year, it's usually about 250 games per year.

About the same then ... our league had about 100 total games pre-tourney.