Post Game "T"

Blackhawk357 · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 11, 2003, 06:04am

This happened to me after a Double Overtime game on Feb,1 this year, final score was 103 to 96. Boys HS Varsity contest, 3-whistle crew. I will paste my report to the State Office below, with players' and team names deleted to protect the guilty.

"Immediately following the final horn, and prior to the officiating crew leaving the floor, a Team A player was approaching his own basket as an airborne shooter. Player B1 of Team B moved toward the airborne player and with both hands pushed said player in a flagrant manner, throwing him violently into the padded wall behind the basket.

As referee, I made sure that players were separated, crowd control was alert, and assembled the crew to assess the situation. After a brief officials conference, I went to the scorers table and directed the scorer to enter a flagrant technical foul in the official book for B1. Had there been any time left, this would have warranted and ejection. I then caught the Team B head coach, Coach B on his way to the locker room, and explained the situation and consequences to him. He was most receptive and cooperative during our conversation."

Ever happen to anyone else?
Any comments on how we handled it?

Blackhawk

ChuckElias · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 11, 2003, 08:30am

Just my opinion, but I think you did the correct thing by assessing the flagrant foul and sending the report.

It doesn't matter at all if the foul is personal or technical in your circumstance, b/c the game is going to be over and the ball will not be inbounded again. But if the shot had been released before the horn, then the ball is still live and the foul should've been personal. I can't tell from your report if he was really an airborne shooter or not. As I said, tho, it doesn't matter in this circumstance. Just something to think about.

Otherwise, I think you were right on the money to toss the kid.

Chuck

Mark Dexter · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 11, 2003, 08:47am

If it's something flagrant - make sure you call it, it's noted in the book, and you report it. A player shouldn't get away with no suspension for a move like this just because it happened a few seconds after the horn!

TriggerMN · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 11, 2003, 09:42am

I agree wholeheartedly. Remember, the rule book states that the officials jurisdiction continues until they leave the visual confines of the playing area. It doesn't matter if a flagrant foul happens during live ball or dead ball action, it is still penalized the same way. Good job, and you may have diffused a problem between these two teams for next year, or even if they meet in the playoffs.

DownTownTonyBrown · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 12, 2003, 05:00pm

I realise this was a flagrant situation and surely needed to be called. What about other actions after the final horn has sounded and the officials are still on the court.

Player runs up to you and yells in your face "You F***in suck." Assess a T?

Coach makes insinuation that you blew the last call by confronting and giving you the universal choking sign? Assess a T?

Player kicks the ball into the crowd hitting innocent people. Assess a T?

Player taunts another with confrontation and says "Nice f***ing game you puss*." Then gives him a little, minor shove. Assess a T?

Would you gentlemen ignore these infractions (that would have ovbiously been penalized during the game) or would you assess a Technical Foul and also shoot free throws if they would affect the game outcome?

Hawks Coach · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 12, 2003, 05:19pm

If this occurs and the winning team does something that warrants a T, you can and should assess the T and shoot the FTs. They are idiots if they put themselves in this situation, and you have no reason to offer protection from their idiocy. Not sure about state rules on ejections for multiple or flagrant Ts, but that might weigh into your decision as well (i.e., even if it's the losing team, if it was bad enough you might assess because that coach or player may just need to sit out the next game).

The physical contact has to be assessed and reported regardless. A little extracurricular cursing by the losing coach merits a report, but you may not choose to T it. But you cannot ignore violent conduct, as that endangers the participants. Give them the flagrant, log the ejection, and report the entire circumstance. I think that this kind of violent conduct by losers after the game is the most reprehensible of all and can never be tolerated.

TriggerMN · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 12, 2003, 08:58pm

Hawks Coach:

In that situation, the free throws are only attempted if they can affect the outcome of the game. For instance, if team A wins by 3, but the head coach of team A receives a technical foul after the game, the official shall record the technical in the book. However, the free throws are not attempted, because even if team B makes both, they are still behind by one point. It is important to record the technical, though, because if another team A member receives a technical, the added free throws now CAN affect the outcome of the game, and are accordingly attempted.

Oz Referee · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 12, 2003, 09:53pm

G'day all - long time no talk

Anywho, if only free throws that can affected the outcome of the game are attempted, what about this scenario?

Fianl Score: Team A-100 Team B-97

As the game ends Coach A curses referees and make an offensive gesture. Referee calls a technical foul (2 shots) and records the foul in the book - no free throws since it couldn't affect the outcome of the game. A short time later (while still on the side of the court) A5 throws a punch at B6 (unprovoked). Flagrent/unsportsmanlike/disqualifying foul (depneding where you ref) on A5 - 2 more free throws.

Do you go back and shoot all 4 free throws? At what stage do you determine that the game is over and therefore don't call any fouls?

Cheers

Quote:

Originally posted by TriggerMN
Hawks Coach:

In that situation, the free throws are only attempted if they can affect the outcome of the game. For instance, if team A wins by 3, but the head coach of team A receives a technical foul after the game, the official shall record the technical in the book. However, the free throws are not attempted, because even if team B makes both, they are still behind by one point. It is important to record the technical, though, because if another team A member receives a technical, the added free throws now CAN affect the outcome of the game, and are accordingly attempted.

williebfree · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 12, 2003, 10:43pm

NFHS rules state that "the officials jurisdiction continues until they leave the visual confines of the playing area."

Therefore, until the ENTIRE crew has left it is NOT officially over.

Adam · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 13, 2003, 12:42am

tony:
Player runs up to you and yells in your face "You F***in suck." Assess a T?

Yes, I call a T. Kid needs to learn that the respect doesn't end at the horn.

Tony:
Coach makes insinuation that you blew the last call by confronting and giving you the universal choking sign? Assess a T?

I'd probably let this slide, depending on how far he goes with it.

Tony:
Player kicks the ball into the crowd hitting innocent people. Assess a T?

Yes, I'd call a T.

Tony:
Player taunts another with confrontation and says "Nice f***ing game you puss*." Then gives him a little, minor shove. Assess a T?

I'd call a T.
One more comment. Player and coaches who follow a game with crap like this deserve to lose (provided they were winning and the free throws are made) and should know better. That said, I doubt many have seen any of these situations happen.

snaqwells

Jurassic Referee · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 13, 2003, 04:18am

Quote:

Originally posted by Snaqwells

Tony:
Coach makes insinuation that you blew the last call by confronting and giving you the universal choking sign? Assess a T?

I'd probably let this slide, depending on how far he goes with it.

Let it slide? The coach couldn't go much farther.He just crapped all over you completely! And let everybody in the world know about it at the same time!

My,oh my!

Adam · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 13, 2003, 05:04am

I reserve the right to change my mind until I leave the court. I somehow didn't catch the choke sign. I'd probably respond with the universal Time Out sign.

snaqwells

Blackhawk357 · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 13, 2003, 07:57am

How 'bout this one.

Team A holds off a big run by Team B to win by one. A1, who is holding the ball at the horn, celebrates with a dunk and swings back and forth a few times.

I think you T him up, looks like Team B has a another chance to pull it off. And I'll bet A1 is running laps all next week.

Blackhawk

ChuckElias · #14 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 13, 2003, 08:03am

If these are HS games we're talking about, then the correct answer is you don't do anything, b/c you don't see any of it. You've already made sure that there are no problems at the table, so when the horn sounds, you beat feet out of the gym. The fact is, you don't want to be in a position to have to make those calls. The game is over, let game management deal with the moron who kicks the ball or swings on the rim. Get outta Dodge.

If this is a sub-HS game, you might not be able to leave the floor between games and then maybe you have to deal with some of it. But if possible, get off the floor specifically so that these things don't become your responsibility.

Chuck

Jurassic Referee · #15 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 13, 2003, 10:40am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
If these are HS games we're talking about, then the correct answer is you don't do anything, b/c you don't see any of it.

Chuck,does that mean that you would ignore "choke" signs,players or coaches swearing at you,etc,-while you were getting out of Dodge?