"Pre-Game Situations"

rainmaker · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 22, 2003, 03:33am

The POE this year and last year that talks about "disrupting the opponents' warmups" is the topic for today. I've been interpreting this as one team doing something on the playing floor at the end where the opponent is warming up. The book both last year and this year use wording that specifically talks about "running through."

But at our association meeting this past week, we were told that we should not allow a team to circle the floor, and that this was part of the POE. That seemed strange to me, since we see a lot of this and no one seems to mind. I've asked several people from our association who were at the meeting and their reactions are all the same as mine. "What's the deal? We thought it meant going through, not just running around."

Is this a new interp, or is it what was meant last year? How are other areas defining this particular type of "unsporting behavior"?

Jurassic Referee · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 22, 2003, 04:04am

Juulie- from this year's POE's - "the state or local athletic conference should establish pre-game procedures and protocols". It sounds like that's what your association just did. Gotta do what "The Man" tells you to do- whether you agree with it or not.

rainmaker · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 22, 2003, 04:08am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Juulie- from this year's POE's - "the state or local athletic conference should establish pre-game procedures and protocols". It sounds like that's what your association just did. Gotta do what "The Man" tells you to do- whether you agree with it or not.

I;m not exactly disagreeing with it, although I certainly don't understand it. Just surprised that it's been added in. I definitely do what I'm told, and I'll be stopping any one that circles the court, but I'm sure not going to be able to explain. I'll just give them Howard's phone number. He's got nothing else to do right now!

PS You're up kinda late, arent you, JR?

Jurassic Referee · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 22, 2003, 04:15am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
[/B]

PS You're up kinda late, arent you, JR?

[/B][/QUOTE]I sleep like a baby. Wake up crying every coupla hours, and have to go the bathroom.

How about you? It's one am out there. Get to bed(even though this is probably the only quiet time that you get in a day).

rainmaker · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 22, 2003, 11:36am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

I sleep like a baby. Wake up crying every coupla hours, and have to go the bathroom.

How about you? It's one am out there. Get to bed(even though this is probably the only quiet time that you get in a day).
[/B][/QUOTE]

yes, and there's no school today, no after-school program, no church programs to prepare for. I slept in, a little, and intend to continue the practice for the next two weeks. I do have 8 games in the next two weeks, though. Makes a very nice vacation over all.

BktBallRef · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 22, 2003, 11:42am

Don't allow a team to:

Run through the opponents warm-up
Run around the opponent's end of the floor.
Go to the center circle during introductions.

There have been problems with those things in different areas across the country over the past couple of years. Running around the opponent's end of the floor is more of an intimidation factor than anything else.

rainmaker · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 22, 2003, 12:01pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Don't allow a team to:

Run through the opponents warm-up
Run around the opponent's end of the floor.
Go to the center circle during introductions.

There have been problems with those things in different areas across the country over the past couple of years. Running around the opponent's end of the floor is more of an intimidation factor than anything else.

I can see that the intimidation factor would be an issue, although I haven't seen much of a reaction to it in the games I do.

So help me define "run around the opponent's end of the floor." I'm thinking we can set this up as though the playing floor is a clock that I'm looking down on. If Home Team A's basket is at 12:00 then Visiting Team B's basket is at 6:00. Everyone following so far?

Now, if A's dressing room door is at 7:00, they should run straight ahead up past 8:00, 9:00 and 10:00 onto their own half, right?

Okay, so if instead they continue around the outside past 10:00, and past 11:00, 12:00, 1:00 and 2:00 and then at 3:00 curl back onto their own half of the floor, that's still okay, right?

So far, so good. Alternatively, if they were to continue around the outside past 3:00, 4:00, 5:00, and so on back around, that seems to me to be obviously one of the situations we're talking about here.

But there are a few gray areas. What if, as they come out of the dressing room and immeidately turn right, passing around the outside of the opponent's end of the floor past 6:00, 5:00, 4:00 and then onto their own half of the floor at 3:00?

Now change the floor plan. What if Team A's dressing room is not near Team B's basket, but at 11:00? They would not be allowed to run all the way around the floor once? They should run directly onto their own half of the floor, or at most, run under their own basket and curl back onto their half before the 3:00 place?

Sub-category B question: If we see this situation developing, do we step onto the court at the crucial moment and set up a roadblock? Do we warn coaches (or who?) ahead of time that this is a new rule, and we'll be enforcing it with a T? Do we warn that next game they'll get a T? How do we follow through on that?

I'm not asking to be a smart-aleck, I just want to do it right. Also, I know that the various details of this may vary somewhat from region to region, and I may not do exactly as you would, but I want to get into the ball-park. I'm also going to ask these questions of my own commissioner.

Rick Vietti · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 22, 2003, 12:12pm

I understand the POE on this, but what exactly is the consequence. Are we to just jump in front of the first kid running and stop him/her? Warn the coach? Give the team a T?

The other "new" twist I have seen on the court this year is that the teams are circling the court and then going to the center circle to have a dance/hoop it up party before breaking into warmups.

We had a situation last week were the team after intros went to the center circle for the dance/hoop it up party, the R on the game broke that up right away while the other team was coming on the court.

Jurassic Referee · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 22, 2003, 12:28pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Rick Vietti
I understand the POE on this, but what exactly is the consequence. Are we to just jump in front of the first kid running and stop him/her? Warn the coach? Give the team a T?

Rick, from last year's POE's:
"Officials should be prepared to assess a technical foul to a team member/team demonstrating these unsporting acts. The specific inappropriate actions of a few team members may be individually penalized or the entire team may be assessed one technical foul, if they collectively engage in any inappropriate behavior(s). Since all team members are considered bench personnel before the game and during intermissions, the head coach would also be charged indirectly with a technical foul".

stan-MI · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 22, 2003, 02:19pm

What you want to avoid is a shoving match or the "dance/whoop it up" party directly in front of the opponent. You probably can't do anything about the direction in which a team enters the court, but you can make sure a team doesn't go out of it's way to circle an opponent, or do some cheer at center court or on its opponents half of the court. Just getting in the way and steering a team away from an opponent goes a long way toward keeping control of the contest.

rainmaker · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 23, 2003, 07:38am

Two more questions from the games I watched/worked last night:

Is it okay to lap the floor, if the opponent isn't out of the locker room yet?

Is it okay before the refs have jurisdiction? I mean before the refs are out on the floor?

bob jenkins · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 23, 2003, 07:40am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
Two more questions from the games I watched/worked last night:

Is it okay to lap the floor, if the opponent isn't out of the locker room yet?

Is it okay before the refs have jurisdiction? I mean before the refs are out on the floor?

1) Yes (although it might depend on your state's rule).

2) No, but who's going to enforce the penalty?

JRutledge · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Dec 23, 2003, 01:09pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Don't allow a team to:

Run through the opponents warm-up

All jurisdictions to my knowledge do not allow this. Actually the NF made this clear.

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Run around the opponent's end of the floor.

Allowed in my state. Unless they interrupt the warm-up.

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Go to the center circle during introductions.

Only the Home team is allowed to do that. Otherwise the visiting team can stay outside the "neutral area."

Peace