Yet another OBS scenario: base path and home plate

[NCASAUmp]

I know OBS comes up a lot on this forum, and pardon me for tossing this out there. However, I have one question for everyone...

Do you consider the base path to stop at home plate? Or do you consider the base path to be through it? Consider the following play...

R1 on 3rd, R2 on 2nd. No outs. B3 hits a pop fly ball to the outfield, easily caught by F9. Both runners tag up and attempt to advance to the next base. F9 throws to F2, who is standing just off the 1st base foul edge of home plate. B1, seeing F2's position and worrying about a possible collision, slows down enough to be noticed by PU. F2 then catches the ball, turns, and tags B1 on a very close play.

Would you have obstruction there? If not, at what point would you consider F2's location to be obstructing the runner? Actually on the edge of HP? In the middle of HP?

I'll post my answer later (and I promise I won't change it after reading everyone else's!).

[IRISHMAFIA]

Do you consider the base path to stop at home plate? Or do you consider the base path to be through it? Consider the following play...

Speaking ASA

By definition, no.

R1 on 3rd, R2 on 2nd. No outs. B3 hits a pop fly ball to the outfield, easily caught by F9. Both runners tag up and attempt to advance to the next base. F9 throws to F2, who is standing just off the 1st base foul edge of home plate. B1, seeing F2's position and worrying about a possible collision, slows down enough to be noticed by PU. F2 then catches the ball, turns, and tags B1 on a very close play.

Remember, the rule is about impeding a runner's progress while not in possession of the ball, not the base path or anything else.

Would you have obstruction there? If not, at what point would you consider F2's location to be obstructing the runner? Actually on the edge of HP? In the middle of HP?

Okay, again, F2's location is irrelevant. I doubt anyone here can actually say for certain if they would rule OBS without seeing the play. Personally, I think it would have to be seriously obvious before I ruled OBS on such a play.

I'll post my answer later (and I promise I won't change it after reading everyone else's!). [/quote]

[jimpiano]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

I know OBS comes up a lot on this forum, and pardon me for tossing this out there. However, I have one question for everyone...

Do you consider the base path to stop at home plate? Or do you consider the base path to be through it? Consider the following play...

R1 on 3rd, R2 on 2nd. No outs. B3 hits a pop fly ball to the outfield, easily caught by F9. Both runners tag up and attempt to advance to the next base. F9 throws to F2, who is standing just off the 1st base foul edge of home plate. B1, seeing F2's position and worrying about a possible collision, slows down enough to be noticed by PU. F2 then catches the ball, turns, and tags B1 on a very close play.

Would you have obstruction there? If not, at what point would you consider F2's location to be obstructing the runner? Actually on the edge of HP? In the middle of HP?

I'll post my answer later (and I promise I won't change it after reading everyone else's!).

There is nothing close to obstruction in this scenario.
There was stupidity in the case of the runner for slowing down.

[BoomerSooner]

There are plenty of ways to avoid a collision in this situation without the runner slowing down to the point of being putout. The first thing that comes to mind is a well placed/timed slide. The way I look at OBS in a situation like this is there must be something that directly and necessarily influences the runners progress. If runner's progress is altered by her own concern for a collision and it turns out it wasn't necessary (this case is one example, another is at first base when a runner slows down to avoid contact when the fielder wasn't really in the way), I'm not calling OBS.

I can't sit out there and try to play the "well she slowed down because she thought she might run into the fielder, or the fielder was in the base path (when the runner was only halfway down the line) so that might have caused her to slow down resulting in an out". I'm going to look for something more concrete before I make the call.

When I played baseball, I was always taught to go hard, run the play out, and just let the umpires take care of the rest if something happened. Now I think coaches and players are so caught up in worrying about these things that used to be the domain of the umpires (like OBS and collisions).

[CecilOne]

"seeing F2's position and worrying about a possible collision, slows down " could be OBS if the fielder was actually risking collision by her position.

Sliding, slowing to turn away as soon as the plate is touched could be deviations.

[CajunNewBlue]

is it just me? or WTH is going on?.....

[CecilOne]

The OP provides an interesting question.

If a fielder beyond the base/plate but in the extended/continued "base path" of the runner, and close enough to the base/plate to not allow avoidance after the base/plate is OBS?

Of course, the corollary question is if the runner does not deviate, is colliding with the fielder after the base/plate subject to the same criteria as before the base for interference or malicious contact?

[mcrowder]

I don't believe I would call OBS on this play. I don't believe I'd even think about it.

[3afan]

I had an OBS at HP in a 16U Friendly yesterday ... catcher was clearly blocking the plate ... I have OBS ... she catches the throw tags runner out .... after the play I announce the OBS, award the runner home - and here comes the coach, running towards me - she is not happy.

but, to my amazement she stops and tears into her catcher for blocking the plate without the ball.

miracles do happen !!!

[kblump]

As OP, how can this not be OBS? A player without the ball caused the runner to deviate from her path. The rule does not have a clause that reads" unless there are other ways to get to the base". Now if the player was far enough from the plate that I judged there was no way she caused the runner to deviate, that would be different.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by 3afan

I had an OBS at HP in a 16U Friendly yesterday ... catcher was clearly blocking the plate ... I have OBS ... she catches the throw tags runner out .... after the play I announce the OBS, award the runner home - and here comes the coach, running towards me - she is not happy.

but, to my amazement she stops and tears into her catcher for blocking the plate without the ball.

miracles do happen !!!

Did he wait for you to call time? Did you count this as a defensive conference?

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by kblump

As OP, how can this not be OBS? A player without the ball caused the runner to deviate from her path. The rule does not have a clause that reads" unless there are other ways to get to the base". Now if the player was far enough from the plate that I judged there was no way she caused the runner to deviate, that would be different.

You're only looking at half of the rule. I grant that you are looking at the half that most people forget ... but you are forgetting the half that everyone else remembers.

[kblump]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

You're only looking at half of the rule. I grant that you are looking at the half that most people forget ... but you are forgetting the half that everyone else remembers.

F2 is not in possesion of the ball and is not fielding a batted ball and is impeding the progress of the runner who is legally running the bases (open for debate since we were not there). I give, what am I forgetting?

[NCASAUmp]

The way I would look at the OP is this... If the fielder does not have the ball, and their positioning causes the runner to deviate from their chosen path, then we would have obstruction, regardless of what side of the base they are on. Since home plate is inherently different from second and third (as a runner can touch it and run past it without being liable to be put out after passing it), I would dare argue both as a coach and an umpire that the runner's path can extend beyond the bag. If a fielder's positioning beyond HP affects the runner's ability to continue their chosen path (causing them to slow down, move aside, stutter their steps, etc.), then I would argue that OBS occured.

Mike (IRISHMAFIA) is correct in that this may just be one of those plays that you HTBT in order to see it. However, after chatting with other blues on this one, I got such a variety of answers that I had to see what others thought. I had one of my partners say, "if the runner has about 80% of the plate available to them, I'm not calling OBS."

What?! And here, I thought the runner had their choice...

[3afan]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Did he wait for you to call time? Did you count this as a defensive conference?

yes SHE did, and no I didnt --- she was gone by time I got done cleaning the plate .............. even if I did have do wait on her I would not have charged a conference, it was a "friendly" between 2 local teams