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Old Thu Jul 01, 2004, 03:18pm
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Pony league rules. In our local leagues I frequently see infielders lined up on a direct line between 1B & 2B or 2B & 3B with runners on base. I have also seen the fielders move in or out as the baserunner adjusts his lead to try pick a clean line. With the exception of a ball hit to one of these infielders, what are the baserunners options?

John
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Old Thu Jul 01, 2004, 03:25pm
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Run the bases normally (without plowing over the fielder). Unless the ball is hit to that fielder, it is the fielder's responsibility to get out of the way. Otherwise it's obstruction.
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Old Thu Jul 01, 2004, 03:30pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by jprideaux
Pony league rules. In our local leagues I frequently see infielders lined up on a direct line between 1B & 2B or 2B & 3B with runners on base. I have also seen the fielders move in or out as the baserunner adjusts his lead to try pick a clean line. With the exception of a ball hit to one of these infielders, what are the baserunners options?

John
If I was the runner, and there was a guy between me and the base I am going to (assuming he is not fielding a ball), I would just run right into him. Don't put a shoulder down, just run into him, get the obstruction call. The runner's options are to either go around the fielder or go through him. If you go around him, it is still obstruction, but that will be a harder call to get, espicially with 1 or 2 umpires. If a team was continously obstructing runners, I would issue a warning, and if it happnes again I would eject the offender.
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Old Thu Jul 01, 2004, 03:43pm
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Thanks for the answers. It confirms what I thought. Problem is that we are a small town with a severe lack of quality umps. Most are inexperienced teenagers who are so focused on getting the base calls right that OBS and other "exotic" calls are seldom made. They try hard, but we don't have anything really resembling a training or mentoring program. It can make things interesting, though!

John
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Old Thu Jul 01, 2004, 03:52pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by jprideaux
Thanks for the answers. It confirms what I thought. Problem is that we are a small town with a severe lack of quality umps. Most are inexperienced teenagers who are so focused on getting the base calls right that OBS and other "exotic" calls are seldom made. They try hard, but we don't have anything really resembling a training or mentoring program. It can make things interesting, though!

John
You should point it out to their UIC that obstruction should be called on that team a lot. He will point it out to the umpires and explain the rule/penalty. That might help some of the calls.
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Old Thu Jul 01, 2004, 03:59pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by LDUB
Quote:
Originally posted by jprideaux
Thanks for the answers. It confirms what I thought. Problem is that we are a small town with a severe lack of quality umps. Most are inexperienced teenagers who are so focused on getting the base calls right that OBS and other "exotic" calls are seldom made. They try hard, but we don't have anything really resembling a training or mentoring program. It can make things interesting, though!

John
You should point it out to their UIC that obstruction should be called on that team a lot. He will point it out to the umpires and explain the rule/penalty. That might help some of the calls.
Good point. I have on some other issues. I try not to be a complainer, though. Too many visits to the UIC makes me a PITA.

John
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Old Thu Jul 01, 2004, 11:18pm
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Also depends on the age of the players. If you're talking about a teaching league, just let the coach of the other team know. "Coach, your second baseman is in the basepath."

The coach will tell him to move up or forward a step and explain why he can't stand there.

Players at younger ages don't often pay much attention to where they're standing. At 8yo and under, they usually just stand on the worn out spot nearest their position.
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Old Fri Jul 02, 2004, 07:33am
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Gentlemen, gentlemen:

Lets not forget the avoid contact rule. Your talking about young kids and already instructing them to "run people over".

When I read your first thread I knew exactly where you were going with this and wanted to see some replys first. Yes obstruction MAY not always be called like it should but, there is both a defenseive rule and offensive rule that have to be taking into consideration here.

LDUB, Purposely running people over is also a violation of the rules. This is not Football. The runner is to avoid contact. If the runner is out because he had to go around the fielder that is obstructing him, than an award rectifies this problem. NOT having the player Run Him Over. That is an out and may be construded as malicious contact. I would say this applies in most ALL youth Ball.

I agree, lesser experienced officials will not pick up on this as readily as most of the more experience one's however, you would be better served by instructing your players to avoid contact. Discuss with the UIC and other Board members so as to bring an awareness to all the officials as to what to look for.
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Old Fri Jul 02, 2004, 08:48pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by jicecone
Gentlemen, gentlemen:

Lets not forget the avoid contact rule. Your talking about young kids and already instructing them to "run people over".

When I read your first thread I knew exactly where you were going with this and wanted to see some replys first. Yes obstruction MAY not always be called like it should but, there is both a defenseive rule and offensive rule that have to be taking into consideration here.

LDUB, Purposely running people over is also a violation of the rules. This is not Football. The runner is to avoid contact. If the runner is out because he had to go around the fielder that is obstructing him, than an award rectifies this problem. NOT having the player Run Him Over. That is an out and may be construded as malicious contact. I would say this applies in most ALL youth Ball.
I did not say run over, I said run into. The original post said that the defensive players were moving in and out in an attempt to pick off runners as they go by. If someone is trying to get in your way it will be hard to get around him, what to you want the runner to do, stand there and try to juke out the fielder in the middle of the basepath?

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Old Fri Jul 02, 2004, 09:06pm
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Runners should be coached to avoid contact with fielders while the runner is on his feet. If they have to bob and weave to do it, then leave it up to the umpire to call obstruction, if there is obstruction. When the runner leaves his feet in his slide contact may be unavoidable, but again, leave it up the umpire to call obstruction, if it is.
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Old Fri Jul 02, 2004, 09:45pm
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Originally posted by DG
Runners should be coached to avoid contact with fielders while the runner is on his feet. If they have to bob and weave to do it, then leave it up to the umpire to call obstruction, if there is obstruction. When the runner leaves his feet in his slide contact may be unavoidable, but again, leave it up the umpire to call obstruction, if it is.
If I was coaching a team, where fielders were constantly getting in the way of my runners, I would tell them to take the bump and get the obstruction call. Sure it is correct for them to avoid contact, but if the defense wants there to be contact, I say let the defense bump you.
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Old Fri Jul 02, 2004, 10:14pm
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so what about this one...

sitch. OBR. R1, R2. F6 is rotating behind R2 to 2B and back to his position, crossing in front of R2. As F6 crosses in front of R2, F6 gives him a bump.

I had R2's coach come out on me about this. My response, Coach I got nothing until there is a play on the R2 or F6 gets malicious. He turned and walked off. Was this right? I can't think of, nor find anything that refutes this.
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Old Fri Jul 02, 2004, 10:20pm
DG DG is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by jumpmaster
so what about this one...

sitch. OBR. R1, R2. F6 is rotating behind R2 to 2B and back to his position, crossing in front of R2. As F6 crosses in front of R2, F6 gives him a bump.

I had R2's coach come out on me about this. My response, Coach I got nothing until there is a play on the R2 or F6 gets malicious. He turned and walked off. Was this right? I can't think of, nor find anything that refutes this.
Until there is a play on the runner you got nothing. You might advise the SS to stop bumping the runner, but other than that you got nothing.
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Old Sat Jul 03, 2004, 04:26pm
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A bumping F6

I had something very similar in a HS game the other day.

With a runner on second, F6 would come in and out from behind R2 clapping his mitt. The third base coach asked me to pay attention to the F6 that he was contacting R2. As I was working alone, I was seeing F6, but not paying close attention to what went on.

As F6 closed in on R2, he would reach out his mitt and tap R2 on the leg, butt, side, etc. I had been hearing murmurings from the 2B area to know that it had been a continuing action.

F1 was set and F6 came in and gave his pat. I threw my hands up and called time. I took off my mask, pointed out to F6 and announced, "That's your warning!" I then turned to his coach and explained, "Have your players keep their hands to themselves." No problems for the rest of the game.

It is unsportsmanlike and unnecessary to contact R2. If it is an isolated accidental incident, I've got nothing. But, if a fielder routinely contacts a runner in any way, whether there is a play or not, it needs to be stopped.

If you don't buy into the fact that it should not be happening, look at it from a different point of view. Let it become preventative umpiring, because don't think for a second that there won't be retaliation for something like that.
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