Does This Run Count

[kraz423]

Hello all...I have a question that I need some input on. If someone would also please cite any references that would also be helpful for me to look at.

Let me preface this by saying that this was a weird play and I've asked several different people (Umpires) and have gotten several differnt answers. The reason I am bringing this to this forum is because not only do most of you give feedback, you also cite rules that can be applied. Here comes the scenario...

Bases are juiced with no one out. There is a line drive that is hit to SS which she catches for out #1, she tosses the ball to the 2nd base(girl) for the out #2 as the runner was trying to retreat back to 2nd base. The ball is then tossed to the 1st base(girl) who then puts a tag on the runner attempting to get back to the base, this is out #3. Before the tag is placed on the runner attempting to get back to 1st base, the runner on third base crosses the plate and scores.

Does that run count?? I thank you for the anticipated responses.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by kraz423

Hello all...I have a question that I need some input on. If someone would also please cite any references that would also be helpful for me to look at.

Let me preface this by saying that this was a weird play and I've asked several different people (Umpires) and have gotten several differnt answers. The reason I am bringing this to this forum is because not only do most of you give feedback, you also cite rules that can be applied. Here comes the scenario...

Bases are juiced with no one out. There is a line drive that is hit to SS which she catches for out #1, she tosses the ball to the 2nd base(girl) for the out #2 as the runner was trying to retreat back to 2nd base. The ball is then tossed to the 1st base(girl) who then puts a tag on the runner attempting to get back to the base, this is out #3. Before the tag is placed on the runner attempting to get back to 1st base, the runner on third base crosses the plate and scores.

Does that run count?? I thank you for the anticipated responses.

Since you didn't state which ruleset you are using, I will assume ASA. Yes, the run does count. See rule 5:5:B.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by kraz423

Hello all...I have a question that I need some input on. If someone would also please cite any references that would also be helpful for me to look at.

Let me preface this by saying that this was a weird play and I've asked several different people (Umpires) and have gotten several differnt answers. The reason I am bringing this to this forum is because not only do most of you give feedback, you also cite rules that can be applied. Here comes the scenario...

Bases are juiced with no one out. There is a line drive that is hit to SS which she catches for out #1, she tosses the ball to the 2nd base(girl) for the out #2 as the runner was trying to retreat back to 2nd base. The ball is then tossed to the 1st base(girl) who then puts a tag on the runner attempting to get back to the base, this is out #3. Before the tag is placed on the runner attempting to get back to 1st base, the runner on third base crosses the plate and scores.

Does that run count?? I thank you for the anticipated responses.

Run scores. An appeal play is a timing play (not a force), and on timing plays, a run that scores before the out counts. Also remember - even though this out can be made by touching a base ... it's still not a force. Even if the girl in your scenario touched 1st base instead of tagging the runner to appeal that she left early - it's still an APPEAL (and not a force), and still a timing play. The run would still count.

Also note - even if R1 did not tag up, the run still scores! Unless and until the defense also appeals that this runner left early as well, getting a "fourth out" to nullify her run.

[IamMatt]

Since I, like the original poster, am always looking for citations, further clarification can be found in ASA POE 1-K, which is exactly on point.

Tag-Ups. If a runner leaves a base too soon on a caught fly ball and returns in an attempt to retag, this is considered a time play and not a force out. If the appeal is the third out, all runs scored by runners in advance of the appealed runner and scored ahead of the legal appeal would count.

I think NHFS is identical in wording (6-2-h?).

[Ed Maeder]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Run scores. An appeal play is a timing play (not a force), and on timing plays, a run that scores before the out counts. Also remember - even though this out can be made by touching a base ... it's still not a force. Even if the girl in your scenario touched 1st base instead of tagging the runner to appeal that she left early - it's still an APPEAL (and not a force), and still a timing play. The run would still count.

Also note - even if R1 did not tag up, the run still scores! Unless and until the defense also appeals that this runner left early as well, getting a "fourth out" to nullify her run.

I don't think we should be so quick to say an appeal play is a timing play. Some are and this is one that is, but if a runner misses a base that they are forced to, then it is an appeal that is a (force play) and the run would not count if the appeal was the third out.