Was it a catch?

[NC_Blue]

OK, then.....

Help me out. Under (____________) ruleset would the outcome for the QUESTION I ASKED be different?

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by NC_Blue

OK, then.....

Help me out. Under (____________) ruleset would the outcome for the QUESTION I ASKED be different?

Next question. I couldn't tell from your post, but was the ground helping the player to maintain the ball in his glove?? Or, as he rolled on the ground did the ball simply "brush" the ground in passing?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by NC_Blue

You guys remind me of the readers who write into Playboy to let them know Miss April's earrings didn't match.

I would say that is because we are anal about such details, but in context, that has a whole 'nuther connotation!

[NC_Blue]

Next question. I couldn't tell from your post, but was the ground helping the player to maintain the ball in his glove??

FAIR question! I really couldn't tell if it was or it wasn't......but I decided in that instant that I saw the ball contact/touch the ground. Based on that, ALONE.....I wasn't going to rule a catch.

If I'm wrong....I'll admit I'm wrong. I just need to see the ammo before I'm shot!

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by NC_Blue

OK, then.....

Help me out. Under (____________) ruleset would the outcome for the QUESTION I ASKED be different?

In FED, this is probably an out, assuming you rule control before it hit the ground. Glove, then ground, is normally an out (and ground, then glove is not, obviously)
In ASA, this depends on whether you determine the ball helped the fielder control the ball. A question you've been asked above, and admitted you couldn't answer. Well... if you're calling ASA, then this is the KEY question that you must answer if you're the umpire. You can't just say, "I don't know" - your judgement on this is why you get the check, and the answer to your OP question hinges on the answer to THIS question.

And if this was baseball ("he","Mound","Rubber"), then you have other rulesets to deal with, with OBR closest to ASA on this one, and FED closest to FED (and LL, I suspect ASA, although I don't work LL).

[NC_Blue]

Answer me this.

Is the definiton of a CATCH different in the associations you reference?

The "mound" has NOTHING TO DO with the situation....and you know it.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by NC_Blue

Answer me this.

Is the definiton of a CATCH different in the associations you reference?

The "mound" has NOTHING TO DO with the situation....and you know it.

The definitions of "catch" are all pretty much the same. However, if the ground, or any other object for that matter, did nothing to help the player in maintaining control of the ball, then I would probably have ruled this a catch. Merely touching, or brushing against the ground does not invalidate the catch.

[NC_Blue]

Scott:

My initial post indicated my fear that this was one of those that you had to see.

MY perception (in a split second) was that I wasn't sure if it aided him or not......and by NOT being 100% sure the ground DIDN'T aid him (because it DID touch it).....I ruled no catch.

The only way I'd have been 100% sure the ground DIDN'T aid him.....is if it hadn't touched the ground.

[MNBlue]

If that is the case, we don't guess outs. If you don't know for sure that F5 caught the ball, you don't have a catch.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by NC_Blue

Scott:

My initial post indicated my fear that this was one of those that you had to see.

MY perception (in a split second) was that I wasn't sure if it aided him or not......and by NOT being 100% sure the ground DIDN'T aid him (because it DID touch it).....I ruled no catch.

The only way I'd have been 100% sure the ground DIDN'T aid him.....is if it hadn't touched the ground.

That is one of the many drawbacks of the one umpire system. You could have probably had a better vantage point as a BU on this play, and at least there would have been two sets of eyes on it.

[NC_Blue]

If that is the case, we don't guess outs. If you don't know for sure that F5 caught the ball, you don't have a catch.

"On the fly"....this was my thinking.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by NC_Blue

Answer me this.

Is the definiton of a CATCH different in the associations you reference?

The "mound" has NOTHING TO DO with the situation....and you know it.

The existence of one would ... it would put you under different rulesets from those discussed here.

And no, the definition is not different. Clinics and interps are though. We've been told more than once in NFHS clinics that if the ball goes into the fielders glove before it hits the ground, then we need to be positive that contact with the ground aided in the catch, whereas in ASA I've heard the opposite.

The definitions are the same... but on this particular case, the burden of proof, if you will, differs, and the "Not sure" default case goes in opposite directions (out in NFHS, safe in ASA).

[NC_Blue]

And no, the definition is not different.

Thanks. I appreciate the honest response.

[mcrowder]

So ... which ruleset was it?

[IRISHMAFIA]

ASA: Fielder must show control of the ball in the hands/glove/mitt and/or the ability to voluntarily release the ball. If the ball actually touched something other the player's hand/glove/mitt, s/he obviously did not have control of the ball. And since the yet to be caught ball has now touched something other than this or any other defender, it is no longer available to be a valid catch.