Force Play or Appeal?

[Four Seam]

Two outs. R1 on first base and R3 on third base. Batter hits grounder.

A. R1 rounds second base, missing the base. Ball is played to second base and bag is touched before R1 returns to the base. Is the runner out on force-out and no run can score (ASA Rule 8-7-C, force out) ? Or is this an appeal play, defense must appeal and tell BU she missed the base, so that run can score if home plate touched before appeal is made?

B. Is answer the same if R1 overruns or slides past second basewithout touching the bag and base is touched before she can scramble back to the bag?

Thank you for replies.

[SC Ump]

My understanding is that the rule on these situations are the same. If a runner passes a base, they are considered to have touched it. However, if the defense were to touch the base while possessing the ball, and they were to make the proper appeal that the runner missed the base, then it would be considered a force out.

"Making the proper appeal" means letting the umpire know specifically the intention of your actions.

[Dakota]

We seem to have some recent postings where incorrect nomenclature is being used for runners.

R1 = runner closest to home at the time of the pitch
R2 = runner next closest to home
R3 = runner on 1B with bases loaded (i.e. third closest to home)

In softball nomenclature, the # after the R tells you nothing about which base the runner started on. It tells you the order of the runners on the bases.

Originally Posted by Four Seam

Two outs. R2 on first base and R1 on third base. Batter hits grounder.

A. R2 rounds second base, missing the base. Ball is played to second base and bag is touched before R2 returns to the base. Is the runner out on force-out and no run can score (ASA Rule 8-7-C, force out) ? Or is this an appeal play, defense must appeal and tell BU she missed the base, so that run can score if home plate touched before appeal is made?

B. Is answer the same if R2 overruns or slides past second basewithout touching the bag and base is touched before she can scramble back to the bag?

Thank you for replies.

Both are live ball appeals, and if there is any doubt as to what the defense is doing, the defense will need to state the reason for the appeal. Both are also force plays, and if the appeal is for the third out, no runs will score regardless of the timing. In fact, a dead ball appeal of a base missed to which the runner was forced for the third out would have the same result.

[greymule]

In ASA, the way I read the book, appeals for missed bases can be made immediately, even if the runner is "in the vicinity" or in the act of returning from near the base. (The case book offers such a play.)

Therefore, in the OP, if, after the runner rounded (and missed) 2B, the play at 2B was clearly an appeal for the miss, then the out is a force, and the run would not score. (But remember that simply tagging the missed base does not ipso facto constitute an appeal. And it's not some kind of automatic force out, a la Fed baseball's notorious "accidental" force, which may or may not still be recognized.)

However, if the defense, without making an appeal, simply tagged the returning runner out after the run scored, then the run would count. Now—could the defense then appeal the miss at 2B and get a force out on an advantageous fourth out? No. The runner put out on appeal had not scored. (Even in OBR, that fourth-out appeal would not be allowed, but for different reasons.)

We seem to have some recent postings where incorrect nomenclature is being used for runners.

That's why I like to use Abel, Baker, Charles, etc.

[Dakota]

Oh, your right - I missed that it was the RUNNER who was tagged in sitch B. That is a runner being tagged for being off the base. That would be a timing play. The defense, if they were clear-headed and quick about the situation, could verbalize the appeal while tagging the runner. But, otherwise, the runner would be out on the tag for being off the base.