Pinch runner for a courtesy runner?

[jwwashburn]

deleted by me and re-stated below.

[umpharp]

You're post was a little confussing, but from what I gather you may have made a mistake.

A runner who is used as a CR can not enter the game or run for anybody else during that half inning.
Once #8 was used as the CR for the catcher, she was done for that half inning. She can enter the game as a normal sub and go in for the pitcher when that team goes back on defense.

What the coach could have/should have done was to place another player as a CR for the pitcher (assuming she got hurt after getting on base and not while still at bat.) then put #8 in as a sub at the start of the next half inning. OR the coach could have put another sub into the game for the pitcher....then sub in #8 at the start of the next half inning.

[jwwashburn]

Ok, Lemme start over....I will explain it better this time...I promise!

The catcher leads off the inning with a single.

#8 is the courtesy runner for the CACTCHER.

The next batter is the PITCHER who is HBP and injured. #8 advances to 2B and a runner runs for the PITCHER at 1B. (Pinch runner or Courtesy runner, it does not matter)

Now, the Offensive Coach realizes that #8 needs to warm up to pitch and he sends in a pinch runner for her at 2B.

My partner and I looked it up after the game and could not find anything to address this. the NFHS book says that there can be no "courtesy runner" for a courtesy runner. I have never seen a pinch runner for a courtesy runner but, since I knew of no rule that forbids it, I allowed it.

Did I do it right?

Joe in Michigan

[SC Ump]

If #8 is the "catcer's courtesy runner" then she should not have been allowed to be the CR for the pitcher. She could have been put in as a substitute (pinch runner) for the Pitcher, as long as she had not already been used as a CR in the inning we're discussing.

Once she was the substitute for the pitcher, a second substitute could have taken her place while she warmed up, but if that happened, #8 would have been considered to have entered the game and left one time.

Had this been a legal CR for the pitcher, then a substitute could have entered the game for her while she warmed up.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by SC Ump

If #8 is the "catcer's courtesy runner" then she should not have been allowed to be the CR for the pitcher. She could have been put in as a substitute (pinch runner) for the Pitcher, as long as she had not already been used as a CR in the inning we're discussing.

#8 was the CATCHER's CR she did not run for the pitcher. Some other player ran for the pitcher. this had nothing to do with who ran for the pitcher.

Originally Posted by SC Ump

Once she was the substitute for the pitcher, a second substitute could have taken her place while she warmed up, but if that happened, #8 would have been considered to have entered the game and left one time.

Ok, this sort of answers my question. Is it ok to pinch run for a courtesy runner? Maybe I just should have never mentioned that the pitcher ever batted. I think that is where folks got confused. Forget that the pitcher ever batted, that is not relevant. All I need to know is if it is ok to pinch run for a courtesy runner. Since the book forbids a courtesy runner for a courtesy runner and never mentions a legal sub for a courtesy runner, we were not sure we got it right.

Joe in Michigan

[MNBlue]

Rule 8-9-1
The team at bat may use a courtesy runner for the pitcher and/or catcher at any time. Neither the pitcher nor the catcher will be required to leave the game under such circumstances. The same courtesy runner may not run for both the pitcher and the catcher at any time during the game.

Rule 8-9-4
A player may not be a substitute for any player in the half inning that she ran as a courtesy runner.

Exception: Injury or disqualification with no eligible substitutes available.

Rule 8-9-6
Once the courtesy runner is designated for that half inning, the pitcher or catcher for whom she is running may not return to run while that courtesy runner is on base. A courtesy runner cannot run for a courtesy runner.

Exceptions: Injury or disqualification to other offensive players with no eligible substitures available. Also, injury or disqualification to the courtesy runner with no eligible substitutes available, the player for whom she is running may return to run the bases, or a legal substitute may be entered.

With all these rules in mind, here is how I would answer your question. When the pitcher was HBP and he wanted to have courtesy runner (CR) #8 begin warming up, the offensive coach had one option - replace the catcher with a substitute and put the substitute on base to replace the CR. Since a CR cannot replace a CR (8-9-6), that option is out, and since the catcher hasn't offcicially left the game/batting order (8-9-1), in order to get CR #8 off the bases to start warming up, a substitute for the catcher would be the only way. Unless he didn't care about the outs and had CR #8 step off early on the next legal/illegal pitch.

Burn an out or a substitution for the catcher, that is basically the decision.

[JEL]

If there were no subs available, #8 could be then subbed in for the pitcher, and the catcher would be placed on second to run, per ART.4 and 6 EXCEPTION(s). That still won't get #8 in the pen to warm up.

"Since the book forbids a courtesy runner for a courtesy runner and never mentions a legal sub for a courtesy runner, we were not sure we got it right."

There can be no substitute for a courtesy runner because the courtesy runner is not in the line up.


#8 will just have to score quickly, then get warm-ups.