HTBT? Pinch Runner versus SUB?

[bobbrix]

1) Skahtboi ... what does "HTBT" stand for again?


2) Also, do any of you use the term "pinch runner" ?

Girls 14-15 fast pitch.

Top of 3rd and Coach comes up to me and say "if this batter gets on base, I'm putting in a pinch runner!".
My mind races ... can't recall that phrase but don't
want to look stumped, so I say OK!!

So, the batter hits and gets to 1st safely.

Coach calls time and the pinch runner comes in.

Then, the original player went back in for defence after that half-inning was over.

In our CSA rule book, I can't find the term pinch runner.

I believe the correct softball term would be "substitute",
right ??? (And the 'pinch runner', being a 'sub' would not be allowed back in after the original player
re-entered on to defence.)

(We don't use/enforce lineup cards here until playoffs.)

Thanks in advance ...

[Dakota]

Originally posted by bobbrix
1) Skahtboi ... what does "HTBT" stand for again?

Obviously, I'm not Skahtboi, but HTBT stands for Had To Be There.

2) Also, do any of you use the term "pinch runner" ?
I believe the correct softball term would be "substitute",
right ??? (And the 'pinch runner', being a 'sub' would not be allowed back in after the original player
re-entered on to defence.)

(We don't use/enforce lineup cards here until playoffs.)

Thanks in advance ...

Yes, you are correct, except that in ASA (I don't know about CSA), the sub is also allowed to re-enter once (changed last year). The pinch runner was an official sub for the batter, so if she reenters, she can only be a sub for the same player she ran for.

[bobbrix]

thanks dakota

except in the case of injury, no we don't allow a second life for a sub that gets removed

would be a lot easier for everyone if we switched to allowing a sub to re-enter once (coaches trying to make sure all players get equal playing time and umpires trying to explain the sub/re-entry rules over and over and over and over)

thanks again ... done with this one ... bobbrix

[Newter]

Originally posted by bobbrix
2) Also, do any of you use the term "pinch runner" ?

Can't talk CSA, but in ASA, no pinch runner. You are correct, that is called a sub. However, you didn't say what defensive position the batter played. In ASA you have a Courtesy Runner who can run for only the pitcher and/or the catcher. Could that possibly have been the case?

Newter

[Skahtboi]

Newter:

I was just fixing to post a similar message. In ASA, USSSA, and NFHS, a CR can be used for the pitcher and the catcher.

Scott

[bobbrix]

well, now that you mention it, she was at short stop the previous inning and then went in as pitcher after the pinch runner (although she didn't warm up on the sidelines)

we did get that new rule this year but from what i recall it only applied to a backcatcher on base with two out (so we don't have to wait so long for them to get there gear on) ... don't recall them calling it a courtesy runner

i'll have to call the powers-that-be and get that news release again, maybe it did say pitcher, but I don't think so ... i'll let y'all know

thanks again all for the replies !!

[Dakota]

she was at short stop the previous inning and then went in as pitcher after the pinch runner

In ASA, with the exception of the top of the first inning, the courtesy runner can only be used for the pitcher of record (the player who actually pitched to end the previous inning or half inning), and not for the player who will be coming in to pitch in the next inning.

So, if this had been ASA rules, the courtesy runner could not have been used. It would have been a substitute.

a backcatcher on base

I love it! That must be Canada-speak for catcher?

[bobbrix]

ha ha, i think that's the 2nd time you've commented on my use of 'backcatcher', Dakota ... i have no idea why i do that, but it certainly seems to be a habit ... i also coach a 10-11 year old team and now that you mention it, i have 'backcatcher' on all of my paperwork

oh well, i'll work on that

sorry though, it's not a canadian word, eh??


anyway, just checked the 2003 rule changes and only the
CATCHER can be temporarily replaced without penalty as i said before ... so, i'm sticking with calling her a re-entry after substitution


---- thanks again all ---- over and out for today

[Dakota]

Originally posted by bobbrix
ha ha, i think that's the 2nd time you've commented on my use of 'backcatcher', Dakota ...

No need to change - it adds to the mix!

Anyway, I remember you using the term before, but I didn't think I commented on it -- so I did a quick search - it wasn't me - it was that other old geezer - bluezebra.

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by Newter
... snip ... In ASA you have a Courtesy Runner who can run for only the pitcher and/or the catcher.

only the pitcher OR the catcher