Runners requesting time

[IRISHMAFIA]

Well, now that Steve stole my thunder.....

I don't think you can compare NCAA ball to much else. There are people who CANNOT get up off the ground and keep contact with the base. And just who determined this had to be a "live" game?

What is the purpose of not granting the player's request for time to get up and prepare to continue the game? There is no more delay than there would be for the crew to move into position. For that matter, it might even allow the game to proceed at a quicker pace.

Sorry, I just don't see the fascination with the "live" game issue. Then again, about a year ago I asked someone to give me a valid reason to keep the game live other than "because" or "it's always been that way" or "it's tradition" and I'm still waiting for an answer.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Sorry, I just don't see the fascination with the "live" game issue. Then again, about a year ago I asked someone to give me a valid reason to keep the game live other than "because" or "it's always been that way" or "it's tradition" and I'm still waiting for an answer.

I don't understand your fascination with trying to turn the fastpitch game into slowpitch without the arc rule.

I also don't understand why you think it is a good thing for the game to remove the requirement that the defense maintain control of the ball to keep runners from advancing.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I don't understand your fascination with trying to turn the fastpitch game into slowpitch without the arc rule.

Couldn't be farther from the truth. Don't go strawman on me.

I also don't understand why you think it is a good thing for the game to remove the requirement that the defense maintain control of the ball to keep runners from advancing.

Please note where I make such a statement? Don't waste your time, you cannot find what doesn't exist.

As previously noted, nothing is supposed to occur between the end of the play and the next pitch anyway, so what it the difference? If the defense needs to do something like pull back hair, tie a shoe, or whatever, the game is going to be suspended anyway, so where is the issue?

Still waiting for a valid answer to my question.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Couldn't be farther from the truth. Don't go strawman on me.

Strawman is as strawman does. You started this with the "fascination" charge.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Please note where I make such a statement? Don't waste your time, you cannot find what doesn't exist....As previously noted, nothing is supposed to occur between the end of the play and the next pitch anyway, so what it the difference?

You want to kill the ball when all play has stopped. So, all play has stopped, F6 is standing there with the ball. All runners are stopped on a base. All that remains is to throw the ball back to the pitcher. So, you want to kill the ball then. F6 then overthrows F1. Ball is dead, runners cannot advance. What is the advantage in killing the ball? Easier on the umpire?

If you want to compare apples and apples on slow v fast pitch, don't compare men's slowpitch with JO fastpitch. What is the pace of the game for a men's fastpitch compared with slowpitch at the same skill classification?

And why are you the sole arbiter as to what is a "valid" answer to your question?

[azbigdawg]

Occasionally Mike is WRONG.... today is one of those days

[Dukat]

Just an FYI.. There are still some places that have JO Slowpitch that is very competitive.

[Al]

Originally Posted by azbigdawg

Occasionally Mike is WRONG.... today is one of those days

I know this post is not about the offense asking for time but...
what are we to do when the lead runner is holding to her base and no other runner can advance behind her? After a few seconds aren't we suppose to call time when the offense has given up on any more advancements even though the ball has not been thrown and controlled in the circle? If a girl is on 1st and 2nd and the third-base coach tells the (lead runner) on 2nd to stay there I call time. Even if the coach is telling her to advance and she doesn't move for a few seconds I call time. The coaches all understand that time will be called not only when control of the ball comes in the circle but when the above reasons come as well. .Al

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Al

I know this post is not about the offense asking for time but...
what are we to do when the lead runner is holding to her base and no other runner can advance behind her? After a few seconds aren't we suppose to call time when the offense has given up on any more advancements even though the ball has not been thrown and controlled in the circle? If a girl is on 1st and 2nd and the third-base coach tells the (lead runner) on 2nd to stay there I call time. Even if the coach is telling her to advance and she doesn't move for a few seconds I call time. The coaches all understand that time will be called not only when control of the ball comes in the circle but when the above reasons come as well. .Al

Why do you feel the need to call time in these unrequested situations? The ball is not dead - heck, the ball's not even to the pitcher yet. What's the purpose in stopping play - especially in the situation where the coach is telling a girl to advance!

[LIIRISHMAN]

Originally Posted by Al

I know this post is not about the offense asking for time but...
what are we to do when the lead runner is holding to her base and no other runner can advance behind her? After a few seconds aren't we suppose to call time when the offense has given up on any more advancements even though the ball has not been thrown and controlled in the circle? If a girl is on 1st and 2nd and the third-base coach tells the (lead runner) on 2nd to stay there I call time. Even if the coach is telling her to advance and she doesn't move for a few seconds I call time. The coaches all understand that time will be called not only when control of the ball comes in the circle but when the above reasons come as well. .Al

THe problem with this is if that ball gets by the pitcher or another fielder you'll be hearing the 3rd base coach telling you that you're preventing his runner from advancing.Imho I wait till the pitcher has that ball in the circle.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Strawman is as strawman does. You started this with the "fascination" charge.

Tom, Tom, Tom.....why is it that you seem offended by that word? There is nothing wrong with being fascinated by something. Fireworks come to mind?

However, the way so many jumped in, it seems that by the definition, my use of the word was quite accurate.

You want to kill the ball when all play has stopped. So, all play has stopped, F6 is standing there with the ball. All runners are stopped on a base. All that remains is to throw the ball back to the pitcher. So, you want to kill the ball then. F6 then overthrows F1. Ball is dead, runners cannot advance. What is the advantage in killing the ball? Easier on the umpire?

Hey, you want to wait until the ball gets back to the pitcher in the vicinity of the PP, that's fine by me. Just like anything else in the game, you can "what if" it to death, you can always find a scenario that doesn't fit the rule.

If you want to compare apples and apples on slow v fast pitch, don't compare men's slowpitch with JO fastpitch.

I was not comparing games. I was demonstrating that the fears of my suggestions affecting the flow of the game are not valid. Nothing would change in the player's or coach's mannerisms if play was suspended. The ONLY difference would be that one umpire wouldn't have to wait for the partner to return to position before s/he could do so.

I believe that, if anything, it could be beneficial to all. The coaches don't have to worry about getting the attention of their pitcher and infielders who are watching the runners. The pitching coach gets the signal to the catcher/pitcher sooner, the base coaches can concentrate on giving the batter her signs which means she is in the box and ready to hit sooner and, yes, the umpires can move back into position and concentrate on what they should be and not whether little Susie falls off a base or does a little groundkeeping around the base. I know Sue Enquist (UCLA) might have had a couple more notches on her belt had my methods been in place in the NCAA a few years back.

What is the pace of the game for a men's fastpitch compared with slowpitch at the same skill classification?

It's been so long since I saw a men's FP game, I couldn't tell you how long they run now. When I was still playing FP in the early 70s, game lasted about 90 minutes.

And why are you the sole arbiter as to what is a "valid" answer to your question?

Because it IS my question Cliff's question was correct, "Who are three people who have never been in my kitchen!"


Darrell, Darrell, Darrell......tsk, tsk, tsk!

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Tom, Tom, Tom.....why is it that you seem offended by that word? There is nothing wrong with being fascinated by something. Fireworks come to mind?

Actually, I wasn't. It was your feigned offense that resulted in my pointing out who started this. I've never had a discussion about how many live ball innings I've had; heck I'd have no idea. It is not something I pay any attention to.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Just like anything else in the game, you can "what if" it to death, you can always find a scenario that doesn't fit the rule.

This is not an unusual scenario, and you're the one who is advocating the slow pitch approach of killing the ball when all play has ended, not me. You said that; you didn't suggest waiting until the ball is in the circle (this time around). Maybe that is because it doesn't speed things up as much as you claim if you wait that long. I still fail to see how calling TIME and suspending play speeds anything up at all. The umpires getting back into position is hardly a big time consumer.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I was not comparing games. I was demonstrating that the fears of my suggestions affecting the flow of the game are not valid.

Tomayto, tomahto.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I know Sue Enquist (UCLA) might have had a couple more notches on her belt had my methods been in place in the NCAA a few years back.

OK, it would protect players from stupid mistakes. Maybe we should allow mulligans also. What would work for you? Three a game?

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Darrell, Darrell, Darrell......tsk, tsk, tsk!

It's Larry, Darrell, and Darrell. If I recall, they were from over your way.

PS to those new to this board: This is an old discussion that renews itself every so often, kinda like the profanity rule discussion. All we need is for wade to jump in again on the side of suspending play as a way to speed things up. At least I think that was wade... Wade?

[wadeintothem]

Slide play with nothing else going on.. you got the runner down holding the base, the player holding the tag.. runner requests time - you call time.

Thats the proper thing to do. Thats the way its done in all levels. There is absolutely no valid reason not to call time. In fact you waste time with confusion and attitude NOT calling time, because everyone else knows to call time.

Anything else is a power trip- the umpire has the power to not call time, so they dont - this has nothing to do with the "integrity of the game" or the "flow" of the game or anything else.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Sorry, I just don't see the fascination with the "live" game issue.

Why is calling the game the way it's meant to be called a "fascination"? There's no reason to stop play every 30 seconds to reset. This isn't football. There is a flow to the game. Constant stoppages for unnecessary timeouts disrupts that flow.

[Dukat]

But calling time to allow a runner the ability to get up is IMHO not "unneccessary". With that said though, I have had too many runners think they can just throw their hands up and say time and jump up before I grant it and that out usually gets a conversation with the coach as they cant understand how she is out when "SHE called time"

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Why is calling the game the way it's meant to be called a "fascination"? There's no reason to stop play every 30 seconds to reset. This isn't football. There is a flow to the game. Constant stoppages for unnecessary timeouts disrupts that flow.

There's my point. Thank you, very much. WHO SAID THE GAME IS MEANT TO BE PLAYED "LIVE"? What God of softball made that determination?

BTW, you may keep the ball live in FP, but nothing is supposed to happen, so what difference does it make? You get a gotcha on a runner who comes off a base every now and then? Is THAT the way the game is supposed to be played?

If "stoppage" is so bad, why is it that the SP game (which Tom mistakenly believes is part of my belief on this subject) which has more action, more offense, more defense, more at bats and the same number of outs takes only 2/3 of the time it takes to play a quick FP game?