Game ending scenario - runner goes into DBT

[jimpiano]

Timing play, run scores , game over.
Hallelujah

After two days we have a winner.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Dakota

???

The "BR gets a walk. R1 crosses home. All other runners enter the celebration and do not advance to their bases" part is a little ambiguous as to whether the "All other runners" includes the BR or not.

We all know not to look for boogers (trouble for some , but knowing what to do if the defense coach finds the booger, might be worthwhile.

The timing play outs seem the answer, unless it's the BR not touching 1st for the 3rd out.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

The "BR gets a walk. R1 crosses home. All other runners enter the celebration and do not advance to their bases" part is a little ambiguous as to whether the "All other runners" includes the BR or not.

We all know not to look for boogers (trouble for some , but knowing what to do if the defense coach finds the booger, might be worthwhile.

The timing play outs seem the answer, unless it's the BR not touching 1st for the 3rd out.

These can't be timing plays, as the bases these runners failed to touch were bases they were forced to advance to due to Batter becoming a runner...

I asked this of a rules guy I know. He agreed with me that by rule we should call this out. He also pointed out, however, that if BR was the first to "abandon", then the other runners are no longer forced to advance - thus making THEIR outs timing plays.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

These can't be timing plays, as the bases these runners failed to touch were bases they were forced to advance to due to Batter becoming a runner...

I asked this of a rules guy I know. He agreed with me that by rule we should call this out. He also pointed out, however, that if BR was the first to "abandon", then the other runners are no longer forced to advance - thus making THEIR outs timing plays.

Now, Mike, in the original post, there was one out. While I agree they can't all be timing plays, it certainly would matter in what order you recognized the other runners' failure. If R3 abandoned before R2, R3's out is a force, while R2's is now a timing play.

[Dakota]

I do now see the point about the ambiguity of my phrase "other runners" in the OP. I meant "other than the runner who scored" and I meant that to include the BR.

The various order of the players entering DBT was something I was thinking about when I wrote the OP. How about this: if the umpire rules the BR out first for entering DBT, not only are there no longer any force outs, the game is actually over since the other runners are not in jeopardy and there are no appeals available, either.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Dakota

... SNIP ...the other runners are not in jeopardy ... SNIP ...

Why not, or am I still asleep?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Why not, or am I still asleep?

It was a walk. They were forced to advance without jeopardy. Just because the BR is declared out does not put those other runners (who are between bases) now in jeopardy of being tagged.

[jimpiano]

Based on the discussion here on a two-out bases loaded walk to end the game, we all are better informed.

In a one umpire game it is going to be pretty difficult to argue that a baserunner missed advancing when the umpire has to watch the run being scored and the batter advancing while the rest of the players are celebrating or walking off the field.

And, by the book and no matter the number of umpires, if the teams are lining up for congratulations and nothing has been said, we are leaving.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Dakota

It was a walk. They were forced to advance without jeopardy. Just because the BR is declared out does not put those other runners (who are between bases) now in jeopardy of being tagged.

Dakota ... you know this.

The rule does not say the runners are FORCED to advance without jeopardy. They are ALLOWED to advance without jeopardy. Before BR is put out, they ARE forced to advance - due to the batter becoming a batter-runner.

However, once BR is out, while they are still ALLOWED to advance without jeopardy, they are no longer FORCED to advance at all - thus making any appeals or incidences of them missing 2nd or abandoning 1st base timing plays and not force plays.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Dakota ... you know this.

The rule does not say the runners are FORCED to advance without jeopardy. They are ALLOWED to advance without jeopardy. Before BR is put out, they ARE forced to advance - due to the batter becoming a batter-runner.

However, once BR is out, while they are still ALLOWED to advance without jeopardy, they are no longer FORCED to advance at all - thus making any appeals or incidences of them missing 2nd or abandoning 1st base timing plays and not force plays.

Yeah, you said it better than I did. I was responding to the Q about why they were not in jeopardy. And, since they are no longer forced to advance, their failure to touch the next base cannot be appealed. Neither can they be tagged for being off the base. Game over.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Dakota ... you know this.

The rule does not say the runners are FORCED to advance without jeopardy. They are ALLOWED to advance without jeopardy. Before BR is put out, they ARE forced to advance - due to the batter becoming a batter-runner.

Well, actually ASA sorta does: 8.5.
RUNNERS ARE ENTITLED TO ADVANCE WITHOUT LIABILITY TO BE PUT OUT.
A When forced to vacate a base because the batter was awarded a base on ball.

[mcrowder]

I see the smiley ... but the folks arguing this (and the trolls ... I'll leave it to the reader to determine if these two groups are one and the same) will think you are saying I was incorrect.

ENTITLED is much more close to "Allowed" and certainly not the same as "Forced" or "Required".