Runner

[debeau]

A runner is on third and never leaves third .
The catcher throws the ball back to the pitcher who now has the ball in the circle but not on the rubber.
The runner now breaks for home .
Is this legal

[Dakota]

Not unless the pitcher made a play on the runner (or on another runner).

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by debeau

A runner is on third and never leaves third .
The catcher throws the ball back to the pitcher who now has the ball in the circle but not on the rubber.
The runner now breaks for home .
Is this legal

It is a violation of the lookback rule in the sequence you describe; that the pitcher has possession of the ball in the circle before the runner leaves the base. If the runner starts while the ball is in the air to the pitcher, that is a legal advance.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by debeau

A runner is on third and never leaves third .
The catcher throws the ball back to the pitcher who now has the ball in the circle but not on the rubber.
The runner now breaks for home .
Is this legal

And the pitcher being on the pitching plate has absolutely nothing to do with this violation. The pitcher merely has to have both feet within the circle.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

It is a violation of the lookback rule in the sequence you describe; that the pitcher has possession of the ball in the circle before the runner leaves the base. If the runner starts while the ball is in the air to the pitcher, that is a legal advance.

A minor addition, if multiple runners violate, only one can be out for RCR/LBR violation. Usually the earliest one to leave the base.

[shipwreck]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

And the pitcher being on the pitching plate has absolutely nothing to do with this violation. The pitcher merely has to have both feet within the circle.

Or one foot in a certain ruleset. Dave

[debeau]

Ok
Now same thing but we have a batter runner who gets a walk and advances and rounds first but doesnt stop .
The runner on third situation is the same , doesnt move off third until the B/R is half way to second and the pitcher just looks .

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by debeau

Ok
Now same thing but we have a batter runner who gets a walk and advances and rounds first but doesnt stop .
The runner on third situation is the same , doesnt move off third until the B/R is half way to second and the pitcher just looks .

Same answer, just one added requirement. The look-back rule goes in effect when BOTH requirements are met; the pitcher has control of the ball in the circle AND the batter-runner has reached first base. Leaving prior to either requirement is a legal advance; leaving after is a violation.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by debeau

Ok
Now same thing but we have a batter runner who gets a walk and advances and rounds first but doesnt stop .
The runner on third situation is the same , doesnt move off third until the B/R is half way to second and the pitcher just looks .

As long as the BR reaches 1st and "the pitcher just looks", R1 may not leave the base. The BR can run or not, no effect on R1. Of course, the BR can violate independently, but still no effect on R1 unless R1 leaves the base or the pitcher makes/fakes a play.

[debeau]

Keep on the explanations or different points of view .
Now I need the rule reference
You can put it in as your ASA and I will match it to ISF .

The reason I put this in is for the first time in many years I did a u13 game and this happened .( I normally do Premier men and women and this doesnt happen )
As we know if you dont see something or it hasnt happened before you have to think .
Now I thought "mmmmmmm this isnt right " and thought the same as your replies but it was late in the game and one team was leading by heaps so I left it but it started preying on my mind and I went to the "experts"
after all most of you guys havnt started ball yet and you have nothing better to do than troll through rules

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by debeau

after all most of you guys havnt started ball yet and you have nothing better to do than troll through rules

Fortunately, we didn't have to, but that last line was a bad choice of verbs.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by debeau

Now I need the rule reference

ASA 8:7:T is the lookback rule. Also, POE....er, uh....R/S #34.

[debeau]

You are right
I didnt relate troll as to a troll in this discussion board
Should have used trawl .
But anyway thanks .
It bugged me for days

[Steve M]

DeBeau - You start doing some youth games after working high levels of adult ball - and you're going to see all sorts of strange stuff. It'll be kinda fun to hear what you see in the mixture of games.

[debeau]

OK
Can I access ASA rules and POEs on line ?