Patrick

[DNTXUM P]

Patrick and Alex:

One question. We got our shirts yesterday. Navy blue. We were told to bring navy pants. That combination doesn't look great. Is navy pant what we are supposed to bring?

Thanks

PS my email is [email protected]

[Dutch Alex]

Hi Larry,

Yep, blue pant it is.
The dutch baseball and softball-union is a small union in the Neth.'s So there isn't a lot of money from the state for our sports. Now the umpires in the two sports are really the last group to put some money in. A view years ago we got new shirts, navy blue. Just as the baseball-ump's are used to wear. At that moment we had to wear them with navy pants.
Last summer we've got new pants (grey, again just as the baseball-ump's). Now we look just the same as an baseball umpire. A large group softball-umpires, inc. our national UIC, don't want to wear the grey pants. We are NOT baseball umpires, don't want to look like them!
So, we still use our old navy pant, together with the navy shirts. But I admit it's very blue...
Don't get me wrong, I'm greatfull for the "gift". But why should we give up our identity in our uniform?

Paddy, you've got my mail about Honig's Europe this friday? please repley on it. And than you can explain what you mean in your first post...

Have all a happy/save NewYear
Sander

[Paddy]

Hi Larry,

just to add to what Alex wrote, one of the reasons that we don't wear gray is because in international softball (read ESF and ISF) you are supposed to wear navy blue pants and light blue shirt. The rules that we normally play by are ISF rules (translated into dutch off course) so that makes us wear the same colors.
Our federation took our light blue shirts several years ago and made us wear the same as the baseball umpires, just last year they gave us grey pants as well. And just like Alex said some feel like we look to much like baseball umpires now and don't like it at all. It doesn't make a big difference to me, but then again I was the only umpire at our last meeting to say so. The rest wanted to go back to navy blue.
Hope that answers your question.
Maybe for next year the organisation can aarange light blue shirts, but that won't make a difference this year.
BTW reading some websites I see that a lot of federations don't have strict dress code. From what I read if you are doing ASA one state requires navy blue and another requires grey or is there a logic in it.

Bye,
Patrick

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Paddy

From what I read if you are doing ASA one state requires navy blue and another requires grey or is there a logic in it.

Strictly personal opinion.

I think it is a lack of intestinal fortitude. Six/seven years ago, when the different uniforms began being used at the local levels, I was told the allowance for the heather gray was due to the number of ASA umpires which also worked HS & collegiate ball, even though at that time, and to the best of my knowledge, NCAA's official uniform does not include gray pants.

Personally, I have a problem with this as those who work the other organizations certainly make enough money to afford the purchase of their official uniform as opposed to ASA-only umpires meeting dual standards.

There was also the issue that umpires wanted to have multiple combinations so they could look cool, like the MLB umpires. My feeling is if you want to look like a baseball umpire, go work baseball.

Then there are those who claim the gray pants are much cooler, temperature wise. My belief is that the material, regardless of color, will hold the heat between the fabric and legs. If you want "cooler", get off the dirt at every opportunity and stand on the grass whenever possible. While the lighter color MAY reflect the sun better than the blue, I don't think it will not deter the reflection of the sun off the surface of the field.

I just wish ASA would pick one uniform and stick with it. The choice should have nothing to do with other org (NCAA, NFHS, etc.) or other games like baseball. The selection should be based on the organization's umpire signature. We are "blue" and we should wear blue.

JMHO

[DNTXUM P]

Sorry guys, i didn't mean to get a forum started, just wanted to clarify. I have both navy and gray and have no problem wearing whatever. Just did not want to bring both due to lack of space. I really have to leave room in my luggage for items that my wife buys while there to bring back.

Really looking forward to this trip. I will buy both of you a beer while there.

Larry

[Dutch Alex]

Originally Posted by DNTXUM P

Really looking forward to this trip. I will buy both of you a beer while there.

Larry

Now, here it's 02:30h 01/01/07 I'm loaded with Champange. Can't see any beer, but I'll guess that will be forgotten on the 12th
Happy New Year everybody!!!

Larry, we'll drink at Schiedam at friendship and the love for the sport...

Sander

[DNTXUM P]

Originally Posted by Dutch Alex

Larry, we'll drink at Schiedam at friendship and the love for the sport...

Sander

Alex:

AMEN

[SoCalU]

Originally Posted by DNTXUM P

Sorry guys, i didn't mean to get a forum started, just wanted to clarify. I have both navy and gray and have no problem wearing whatever. Just did not want to bring both due to lack of space. I really have to leave room in my luggage for items that my wife buys while there to bring back.

Really looking forward to this trip. I will buy both of you a beer while there.

Larry

You have never bought a round of drinks in your life!!!!!!

[Paddy]

You have never bought a round of drinks in your life!!!!!!

Maybe that is one of his New Years resolutions.

And maybe while it has never happened before doesn't mean it won't happen in the future. You are never to old to change (or was it learn )

Either way, Larry I will see you next week.

[DNTXUM P]

Originally Posted by SoCalU

You have never bought a round of drinks in your life!!!!!!

Who bought in Houston last year? I just don't buy in SoCal because I am the visitor. Besides, should't your handle be OrU?

Hi, W.

Patrick, don't believe anything this guy says. He is the only one I know that leaves the plate right in the middle of a TV game to go to the bathroom and leavesa national audience waiting after commercials are over.

[Dutch Alex]

Originally Posted by SoCalU

You have never bought a round of drinks in your life!!!!!!

Larry actually bought us friday night a round a beer. It tasted great! Even while it was a "Heiniken"beer. (I'll never buy that brand, to much chemicals) I'll hope that we can share a drink together again soon...

We've had a super time this weekend. If anyone here around is invited to the IndoorCup in the Netherlands and doesn't know if he/she would go, I would say: Go for it ! ! !
I'll hope to get invited next year. If not, I know I'll be watching the games.

The USA/Canada-teams and umpire's are now in Paris (France) for a view days and will be flying home this week...

[ntxblue]

Originally Posted by SoCalU

You have never bought a round of drinks in your life!!!!!!

Not true!!! Larry picked up the tab for our entire dinner one night in Fort Worth after a local college tourney. Larry's always a generous guy.

Gary

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Strictly personal opinion.

I think it is a lack of intestinal fortitude. Six/seven years ago, when the different uniforms began being used at the local levels, I was told the allowance for the heather gray was due to the number of ASA umpires which also worked HS & collegiate ball, even though at that time, and to the best of my knowledge, NCAA's official uniform does not include gray pants.

Personally, I have a problem with this as those who work the other organizations certainly make enough money to afford the purchase of their official uniform as opposed to ASA-only umpires meeting dual standards.

There was also the issue that umpires wanted to have multiple combinations so they could look cool, like the MLB umpires. My feeling is if you want to look like a baseball umpire, go work baseball.

Then there are those who claim the gray pants are much cooler, temperature wise. My belief is that the material, regardless of color, will hold the heat between the fabric and legs. If you want "cooler", get off the dirt at every opportunity and stand on the grass whenever possible. While the lighter color MAY reflect the sun better than the blue, I don't think it will not deter the reflection of the sun off the surface of the field.

I just wish ASA would pick one uniform and stick with it. The choice should have nothing to do with other org (NCAA, NFHS, etc.) or other games like baseball. The selection should be based on the organization's umpire signature. We are "blue" and we should wear blue.

JMHO

wrt "I just wish ASA would pick one uniform and stick with it."
That would be great if all sanctions could agree on one uniform and more importantly, stop changing it every time they get a chance. Even if some NCAA umpires make enough to pay for extra uniforms, most have more useful purposes for it and some actually need the income. I really don't care what color or what uniform we wear and I'm certainly not concerned about what color shirt looks more fashionable with what color pants. The point is it being uniform and "uniform" means same. If we all wore the same, then the uniformity would be apparent and the players and coaches would accept not only our appearance, but our consistency as well. We are on the field to work, not model. I'm really tired of buying and maintaining multiple "sets of clothes"; then having to replace them all every time some manufacturer takes a bigwig out to lunch in Oklahoma City or Indianapolis.
BTW, anyone who thinks the MLB umps look cool, with their white swoop shoes and non-matching jackets, should not have a say in what we wear.

Also, it is the fabric and not the color that makes the most difference.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

wrt "I just wish ASA would pick one uniform and stick with it."
That would be great if all sanctions could agree on one uniform and more importantly, stop changing it every time they get a chance. Even if some NCAA umpires make enough to pay for extra uniforms, most have more useful purposes for it and some actually need the income. I really don't care what color or what uniform we wear and I'm certainly not concerned about what color shirt looks more fashionable with what color pants. The point is it being uniform and "uniform" means same. If we all wore the same, then the uniformity would be apparent and the players and coaches would accept not only our appearance, but our consistency as well. We are on the field to work, not model. I'm really tired of buying and maintaining multiple "sets of clothes"; then having to replace them all every time some manufacturer takes a bigwig out to lunch in Oklahoma City or Indianapolis.
BTW, anyone who thinks the MLB umps look cool, with their white swoop shoes and non-matching jackets, should not have a say in what we wear.

Also, it is the fabric and not the color that makes the most difference.

Personally, as an ASA umpire, I don't give a damn what you wear for other sanctioning bodies. It is not my responsibility, nor should it be at my expense, to carry additional uniforms because YOU want to work other games sanctioned by other associations.

Just recently, as a UIC, I set a uniform for a tournament. In spite of my personal opinion, I allowed for powder over navy and navy over gray. I made this known to all selected umpires and specifically asked all to inform me if they did not have any part of the optional uniforms.

The only response was from one umpire who did not have a navy shirt and asked if he should buy one. I strongly suggested he contact other umpires to borrow a shirt. He did not know any umpires with a navy shirt, so he purchased one.

Come the tournament when asked about uniform availability, two or three informed me they did not have gray pants. I had no choice, but to discount the use of anything other than powder over gray. I was not impressed that those umpires did not just answer my question so I could inform the others. Meanwhile, this umpire purchase a shirt for which he has no use.

Again, I'm referring to ASA softball. I don't give a damn what other associations do. ASA umpires should not be responsible to adjust to benefit others who choose to work the games of another sanctioning body.

[Dakota]

While the principle of your point is well taken, you are looking at this at the wrong level. The motivation is driven by local leagues, etc., needing to attract umpires.