Situation : Interference ?

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by debeau

Yep good theory question and I just had it at an ISF accreditation as my case play .
My answer was no interference play on could even have OBST.
Merle Butler who took the clinic said I was wrong .
Everyone at the clinic said I was wrong .
So as didnt want to embarrass Merle I asked him on his own.
Answer : Dead ball get the runner to return to 3rd and the batter to bat again .
I then asked the other examiner .
Wait until ball rolls fair then kill it and and have an out for Int
Then another examiner .
Dead ball runner out batter to 1st .
Other answers wer
Dead ball runner out batter bats on .
ISF mirrors ASA in the INTF rule but I really would like to know what to do the answer

Yep youre in a tough spot lol. Little bit more important for you to get it right.

I think the answer lies in the squeeze play which will illustrate why the intent of this rule would necessitate INT.

Slow spinning bunt 4 ft up the line on foul side but with the obvious motion that its going fair.. it's moving to fair territor quickly as a matter of fact.

Hard charging R1 from 3B -- F2 is reaching down to touch the ball foul.. runner runs through the catcher knocking the catcher over who misses touching the ball. The ball settles fair as it was obviously going to.

Nothing blatant for USC.. the decision is

Score the run or INT.


Those that score the run dont understand the intent of INT nor acknowledge that making a play on a otherwise fair ball to make it foul is a legit defensive play worthy of the protections of the intent of the rule.


To answer your other post.. a ball that settles fair before 3B is fair.

So a ball on the foul side that settles fair is fair.

And defensive players making a play on that ball are entitled to the protections of INT.

[argodad]

Excellent discussion! Thanks debeau. Even the experts disagree. Again we see the value of this board. So now I know what I'm going to do if it happens to me. I'm going to kill it and call it foul at the point of collision.

As Mike said, I'm probably going to have to explain my decision to a coach. Offense shouldn't have to much to gripe about. (The other option was interference and an out.) If the defense comes out to talk: "Coach, you can't have interference on the runner on a foul ball."
"But Blue, it rolled fair!"
"It was foul when I killed the play, Coach. Let's play."

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by argodad

Excellent discussion! Thanks debeau. Even the experts disagree. Again we see the value of this board. So now I know what I'm going to do if it happens to me. I'm going to kill it and call it foul at the point of collision.

As Mike said, I'm probably going to have to explain my decision to a coach. Offense shouldn't have to much to gripe about. (The other option was interference and an out.) If the defense comes out to talk: "Coach, you can't have interference on the runner on a foul ball."
"But Blue, it rolled fair!"
"It was foul when I killed the play, Coach. Let's play."

What rule is being used to kill the ball?

If its INT ... well then enforce the INT. I'm not sure how you are interpretting the rules to only enforce half of INT (just DB)

This is a do over... maybe easiest and the path of least resistance through coaches - but strictly by the book, I dont see how you (and Dakota) are doing it.

[mcrowder]

My take:

We have a ball with no current fair/foul status over foul territory.

We have a fielder interfered with. Dead ball!

At the moment of the dead ball, the ball is over foul territory, so we now have a FOUL ball.

By rule, there is no out for interference with a fielder fielding a grounded foul ball. So - no out. Just a foul ball.

In other words, while you have interference, you do not have a rules basis for an out. Logically, the only thing left is a foul ball.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

My take:

We have a ball with no current fair/foul status over foul territory.

We have a fielder interfered with. Dead ball!

At the moment of the dead ball, the ball is over foul territory, so we now have a FOUL ball.

By rule, there is no out for interference with a fielder fielding a grounded foul ball. So - no out. Just a foul ball.

In other words, while you have interference, you do not have a rules basis for an out. Logically, the only thing left is a foul ball.

There is no rule-book basis for an INT call on a ball that is not fair. INT is very specific

[tcblue13]

That is the net result. No Int call

If you let the situation play out like a DDB sitch (I see this as the only other option)
Kill it whe F5 touches the ball and declare R1 out and put BR on first base. The O coach will go ballistic "Why the h*ck didn't you call it when it happened?"
"Well coach, it's technically not Int when the ball is foul, however the ball rolled fair so then it became interference so I had to call it then."

Now another question
Can a player "make a play" on or "attempt to field" a foul ball or a ball in foul territory?
Certainly yes if the ball does not touch the ground, but a slow roller that has not been ruled foul or dead is a different story isn't it?

Ergo, what do you do with the crash?
F5 has to be able to make a play on the ball, right?

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

That is the net result. No Int call

That is incorrect 100%. That ball isnt foul or dead. Simply Crashing into a fielder iis never a DB, unless by rule its DB for a reason. INT/DDB for OBS, etc .. SOMETHING must happen, some rule must come into play - for there to be DB on a crash.

[/quote]

If you let the situation play out like a DDB sitch (I see this as the only other option)
Kill it whe F5 touches the ball and declare R1 out and put BR on first base. The O coach will go ballistic "Why the h*ck didn't you call it when it happened?"
"Well coach, it's technically not Int when the ball is foul, however the ball rolled fair so then it became interference so I had to call it then."

Simply because a coach will go ballistic is not reason enough to not make the call.

The ball in the situation was a fair ball. the player never touched it, it settled fair, therefore, the fair aspect of INT is met.

There is a punitive effect of INT.. but some umpires are averse to enforcing a punitive punishment, and instead you are looking for a "Fair/equal way" to enforce this play.

The rules are clear.

Now another question
Can a player "make a play" on or "attempt to field" a foul ball or a ball in foul territory?
Certainly yes if the ball does not touch the ground, but a slow roller that has not been ruled foul or dead is a different story isn't it?

No, not at all. Not by any stretch of the imagination IMO. In fact, that is a live ball.. people are running, it is not a DB situation, it is not foul. Its not dead until its dead by rule. Furthermore, even killing a ball foul by a Defensive player is a very valid play. Interferring with that play, especially so as to ensure the ball continues fair is Interference.

No one questions that, what is being missed is the enforcement of that INT, which is actually clearly written.

Ergo, what do you do with the crash?
F5 has to be able to make a play on the ball, right?

Its obvious, a runner Interfered with a fair batted ball.

Everyone knows it, because the unanamious ruling is INT DB.

But you then disregard the punitive effect of INT and are on your own deciding how that INT gets applied: leaving out the written punitive punishment of INT.

There is no rule is ASA that says

"INT = DB, strike on batter (unless its 2 strikes), do over."

Int is DB runner out.. etc.


------------------------------------------

I do agree with Dakota about using this as a case play on his exam when its obvious there is differing opinon even among the examiners is beyond the pale.


VERY good dabate.

This one makes me think.

LBR was so tired.

[tcblue13]

Coach, The ball is dead on the interference on F5 by B1
The ball became dead in foul territory.
The foul ball nullifies the interference since interference can only be called on a fair batted ball.
Consequently all runners are returned to the bases occupied at the time of the pitch.
A strike is charged to the batter (if there are not already 2 strikes.)
Play on