Catcher’s Limits

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Antonella

4. AGREE with tcannizzo: if a pitched ball cannot cross homeplate I have a 'ball'

tcannuizzo would call this CO, not a ball.

Originally Posted by Antonella

Maybe due to language problem, maybe I loose something... please explain it again. What I understand is that there is a POE (that is NOT on my Rulebook) stating CO could be call.
What I understand is... CO could be called IF a REAL obstruction occurs.
What am I missing here?

In my view, you are missing nothing. tcannizzo disagrees with you (and with me). In tcannizzo's situation, no real obstruction has occurred, nor is it likely to occur. The batter is up in the box, the catcher is up to the back edge of the plate. All legal in ASA. Unless the batter moves back, there is no more likelihood of CO here than with the batter next to the plate and the catcher back in the catcher's box.

[tcannizzo]

We may or may not disagree on a number of things, but I absolutley disagree with what you have written here.

Originally Posted by Dakota

The batter is up in the box, the catcher is up to the back edge of the plate. All legal in ASA.

ASA Rule 1 - Definitions
Catcher's Box - The area defined by lines which are considered within the catchers box. The catcher's body and equipment are considered within the box unless touching the ground outside the box. The catcher must remain in the box until (FP) the pitch is released.

ASA Rule 2.3 - The Playing Field
D. The catcher's box shall be 10 feet in length from the rear outside corners of the batter's boxes and 8 feet 5 inches wide.

ASA Rule 6.5 - Pitching Regulations (Fast Pitch)
Defensive Positioning
A. The pitcher shall not deliver a pitch unless all defensive players are positioned in fair territory, except the catcher who must be in the catcher's box.

ASA Rule 6.7 Catcher
A. The catcher must remain within the lines of the catcher's box until the pitch is released.


If the catcher's feet are up to the back edge of home plate, or anywhere outside the catcher's box, I will not let the pitcher pitch until the catcher moves back.

In my game, I had this sitch and asked the catcher to move back. In real time, I told the catcher that she could be called for CO. With the benefit of hindsight and this message board, the correct comment would be: Failure to do so will result in a NO PITCH.

If you do not agree with me on this, then we will just have to agree to disagree.

If you think this is over-officiating, then we will have to agree to disagree on this as well.

[Dakota]

You forgot to quote from your favorite POE,

During a regular pitch to a batter, should the batter be in the front of the batter's box, the catcher can move closer to the plate without penalty.

Obviously (to me, anyway), this means outside of the normal confines of the catcher's box. Otherwise, there would be no issue of "penalty" to be "without."

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

ASA Rule 6.7 Catcher
A. The catcher must remain within the lines of the catcher's box until the pitch is released.

And POE #8 specifically allows for an exception to that rule, but you choose to ignore that.

If the catcher's feet are up to the back edge of home plate, or anywhere outside the catcher's box, I will not let the pitcher pitch until the catcher moves back.

In my game, I had this sitch and asked the catcher to move back. In real time, I told the catcher that she could be called for CO. With the benefit of hindsight and this message board, the correct comment would be: Failure to do so will result in a NO PITCH.

Okay, now what are you going to do if the catcher doesn't move because her coach told her to move up as the POE allows? Cannot call an IP or rule a ball because you are the one holding up the pitcher. Are you prepared to eject the player and/or coach for non-compliance of an umpire's direction?


I can appreciate your ardor toward the game, but it's not your game or your field. The game belongs to the players. Only if you are truly fearful of an injury to the catcher should you even consider telling her to move back. But only if that fear is true and not just an excuse to get the catcher to do what you want.

[tcannizzo]

So, now you are going to throw a POE at me?

OK, OK, you guys win. This is just like home. My wife wins every argument, because each time I open my mouth it starts a new argument.

[Dakota]

POEs apply where they apply. As I said way back at the beginning, my issue with what you did was not that you warned the catcher per se, but that you told the catcher that you would call something as CO that was not CO.

CO has a meaning - as we have pointed out several times in this thread - the thing being "obstructed" is the batter's opportunity to hit the ball. It has nothing to do with where the catcher's mitt is unless the catcher is obstructing the batter.

The POE on catcher's obstruction assumes that there has been an infraction of CO, and it explains the interpretations of that infraction. You cannot apply the part about the mitt being over the plate unless by doing so, the catcher is obstructing the batter. Merely being over the plate is not, by itself, and infraction.

[tcannizzo]

Fair enough.

So, if the catcher touched the ball prior to crossing the plate. How rule ye? and Why?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Fair enough.

So, if the catcher touched the ball prior to crossing the plate. How rule ye? and Why?

Depends...

If the catcher obstructed the batter's opportunity to hit the ball (e.g. it did not reach the batter), then that would be CO. The reason for hedging on this is if the batter is well up in the box, so the pitch has passed the batter before the catcher touches it, then I would just have a "ball".

I've actually had young & inexperienced catchers reach up beside or ahead of the batter for an errant pitch (trying to catch a low pitch before it hits the ground, for example). If the batter shows clearly that she is not swinging (e.g. she has bailed), this, also, is just a ball (possibly with a warning to the catcher for safety reasons).

[Skahtboi]

Phew.......