Batter prevents ball from rolling fair

[Steve M]

I think we may have a difference in rules with this one. ASA doesn't have any violation on this - per Mike. Fed does cover this. I think it's Rule 7, Section 7, dunno what article covering when the batter is out - if the batter-runner intentionally contacts a ball in (fair or) foul territory - and the ball has a chance of going fair when touched in foul - that's interference, batter-runner is out, and other runners return to their base at time of pitch.

[bigsig]

I would call them out for interference. The way you described it, the batter's actions were to willfully change the balls direction and prevent an out.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by bigsig

I would call them out for interference. The way you described it, the batter's actions were to willfully change the balls direction and prevent an out.

Ah, under the section in the rules labelled, "Willfully changing the ball's direction".

Doesn't the batter make every attempt, while at bat, to willfully change the ball's direction and prevent an out? We don't call them out for that when they succeed, do we?

As noted, in FED, it's INT. In ASA, this is perfectly legal. (Perhaps it SHOULDN'T be, and perhaps we WISH we could call an out here ... but we can't.)

[bluezebra]

Out for interference. And a 5-yard penalty for illegally kiicking a loose bal.

Bob

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by bluezebra

Out for interference. And a 5-yard penalty for illegally kiicking a loose bal.

Bob

In what country do you "kiick a loose bal"? You must be talking about Miami Dolphin great, Jim Kiick

[bluezebra]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

In what country do you "kiick a loose bal"? You must be talking about Miami Dolphin great, Jim Kiick

It's pronounced, "keeyick", and is 'down-Eastern'.

Actually fat fingers and not proof-reading.

Bob

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by bluezebra

Out for interference. And a 5-yard penalty for illegally kiicking a loose bal.

Bob

Bluezebra, is the a basic spot, spot of the foul, or previous spot!

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Ah, under the section in the rules labelled, "Willfully changing the ball's direction".

Doesn't the batter make every attempt, while at bat, to willfully change the ball's direction and prevent an out? We don't call them out for that when they succeed, do we?

As noted, in FED, it's INT. In ASA, this is perfectly legal. (Perhaps it SHOULDN'T be, and perhaps we WISH we could call an out here ... but we can't.)

There has to be some rule application that covers this in ASA? So I am running home from third and it looks like it (the ball) is going to go far and the batte runner is going to be thrown out at first for the third out, I should just kick the ball so it stays foul with no penalty? Do I have this right?

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by RonRef

There has to be some rule application that covers this in ASA? So I am running home from third and it looks like it (the ball) is going to go far and the batte runner is going to be thrown out at first for the third out, I should just kick the ball so it stays foul with no penalty? Do I have this right?

Unfortunately, yes. You have that right. In fact, the ASA rulebook specifically states that if a batter or runner interferes with a foul ball, it's a foul ball.

[bigsig]

In my judgement, a BR who stops a ball from rolling into fair territory has displayed poor sportsmanship and I would call them out.

POE 49 "The values of softball competition are based on sporting behavior and fair play. Coaches and players are expected and trusted with these values."

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by bigsig

In my judgement, a BR who stops a ball from rolling into fair territory has displayed poor sportsmanship and I would call them out.

POE 49 "The values of softball competition are based on sporting behavior and fair play. Coaches and players are expected and trusted with these values."

Is that the proper penalty for sportsmanship? What penalty is called for if someone (in ASA) has committed an unsporting act?

While I agree that it's not fair and not proper, that's just my opinion. Is it really not fair? Mike's supposition is very good, in that we don't penalize the defense for making a play on a ball in foul territory that may well go fair. Here's a for instance: slow roller down 1B line. Pitcher, catcher, 1B, whoever else are gathered around. The instant the ball is foul one (or more) swipe at the ball, make contact and bat it foul with their glove.

Of course they can do this because the rule book infers they can do that. But there's nothing specific that says they can — just like there's nothing specific that says the offense can't contact a ball that is foul.

[OhioASADistrict1Commish]

Maybe we should ask the question, "When is a live ball a foul ball?" It may be in foul territory but it is not considered foul until the ball stops or is touched.
Could the rule of the ball touching the batter when the batter is out of the batter's box be implemented to call the batter out???

[SRW]

Originally Posted by RonRef

There has to be some rule application that covers this in ASA? So I am running home from third and it looks like it (the ball) is going to go far and the batte runner is going to be thrown out at first for the third out, I should just kick the ball so it stays foul with no penalty? Do I have this right?

Speaking ASA,
Why do you think that coaches teach their baserunner on 3B to lead off in FOUL territory? If they get hit there, it's a foul ball...

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by bigsig

I would call them out for interference. The way you described it, the batter's actions were to willfully change the balls direction and prevent an out.

Citations please.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Steve M

I think we may have a difference in rules with this one. ASA doesn't have any violation on this - per Mike. Fed does cover this. I think it's Rule 7, Section 7, dunno what article covering when the batter is out - if the batter-runner intentionally contacts a ball in (fair or) foul territory - and the ball has a chance of going fair when touched in foul - that's interference, batter-runner is out, and other runners return to their base at time of pitch.

Steve, are you sure you aren't thinking about 7-4-11, hitting the bat a second time in foul territory? In NFHS, the batter is out if, ITUJ, it had a chance to go fair.

I can't find anything about the runner or BR being out after contact with a non-fly batted ball in foul territory.

Maybe I'm missing something...