rolling the ball in the backcourt

[thereluctantref]

I just got back from a 5th and 6th grade game and saw this curious thing. There's about 15 seconds left in the game and team A is inbounding from the baseline in their backcourt. They try to save time and roll the ball in the backcourt so the clock will not start. Anyway, the coach calls a timeout while the ball is rolling and the referee grants him the timeout and ball at the point the coach wanted the time out (at just before halfcourt) but before any of the boys have touched/picked up the ball. This can't be the right call can it?

[Jurassic Referee]

Nope, the team had to have player contol of the ball inbounds ( holding or dribbling the ball) before a time-out request should have been granted. The official made the wrong call. Once he did blow his whistle though, he still does have to grant the time-out request, whether it was wrongly made or not.

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Once he did blow his whistle though, he still does have to grant the time-out request, whether it was wrongly made or not.

And once he does this, he has an inadvertant whistle during a throw-in. So the ball is put back in play at the point of interruption which is that team's throw-in at the original throw-in spot.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by thereluctantref

I just got back from a 5th and 6th grade game and saw this curious thing. There's about 15 seconds left in the game and team A is inbounding from the baseline in their backcourt. They try to save time and roll the ball in the backcourt so the clock will not start. Anyway, the coach calls a timeout while the ball is rolling and the referee grants him the timeout and ball at the point the coach wanted the time out (at just before halfcourt) but before any of the boys have touched/picked up the ball. This can't be the right call can it?

Coach A or any A player has the right to a timeout in this case.

Coach B, as JR & Chuck said, does not.

[jkjenning]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Coach A or any A player has the right to a timeout in this case.

That can't be true.
Team A is inbounding, so per the other posters team A cannot call a timeout until they take possession of the ball [same as if a pass is in the air].
Team B cannot call a timeout once the ball is at the disposal of the thrower and certainly not until the ball becomes dead.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by jkjenning

That can't be true.
Team A is inbounding, so per the other posters team A cannot call a timeout until they take possession of the ball [same as if a pass is in the air].
Team B cannot call a timeout once the ball is at the disposal of the thrower and certainly not until the ball becomes dead.

DOH!

Sorry. My first mistake this week.

[jkjenning]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Sorry. My first mistake this week.

Ah - rather you than me!!
I was wondering what fault would lie in my post... whew!

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

And once he does this, he has an inadvertant whistle during a throw-in. So the ball is put back in play at the point of interruption which is that team's throw-in at the original throw-in spot.

Question since I am nowhere near a rulebook right now.

In FED since there is no team control during a throw-in would we be going to the AP arrow? Does the NFHS rulebook address inadvertant whistles during a throw-in???

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Question since I am nowhere near a rulebook right now.

In FED since there is no team control during a throw-in would we be going to the AP arrow. Does the NFHS rulebook address inadvertant whistles during a throw-in???

Rule 4-36-2(b)- "Play shall be resumed by a free throw or a throw-in when the stoppage occurred during this activity or if a team is entitled to such".

Chuck had it right.

Now, if a player hadda touched the throw-in and you then had an IW before player control was established, then you would have to go to the AP.....and probably also have had to dump the team A coach if B has the arrow.

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

In FED since there is no team control during a throw-in would we be going to the AP arrow. Does the NFHS rulebook address inadvertant whistles during a throw-in???

JR gave you the rule reference. The reason that you might not remember it immediately is that it was a new rule last year and probably didn't get used very often. When they added the "point of interruption" rule, they included inadvertant whistles among the times you use the POI.

[Dribble]

Realistically, I'd probably give the ball to team A, but I want to throw this other rule reference out there for discussion.

I agree with BadNewsRef in that the throw-in should be resumed by the alternating possession arrow. Part c of the same rule that JR quoted (4-36-2c) says, "An alternating-possession throw-in when the point of interruption is such that neither team is in control and no goal, infraction, nor end of quarter/extra period is involved."

When I read that rule I am led to believe that the play does not involve an infraction because to me that's either a violation or a foul and not an inadvertent whistle.

Thoughts?!?

[jkjenning]

Originally posted by Dribble
when the point of interruption is such that neither team is in control

...team A was in control, so POI would not apply - there was just no player control.
Were you implying that perhaps because of no player control, then the POI would be correct?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Dribble

Realistically, I'd probably give the ball to team A, but I want to throw this other rule reference out there for discussion.

I agree with BadNewsRef in that the throw-in should be resumed by the alternating possession arrow. Part c of the same rule that JR quoted (4-36-2c) says, "An alternating-possession throw-in when the point of interruption is such that neither team is in control and no goal, infraction, nor end of quarter/extra period is involved."

When I read that rule I am led to believe that the play does not involve an infraction because to me that's either a violation or a foul and not an inadvertent whistle.

Thoughts?!?

Realistically, you'd deliberately give the ball to the wrong team for a throw-in? Oh my......

Thoughts?

How can you say the above when R4-36-1 says "method of resuming play due to an official's accidental whistle"? The "accidental whistle" occured DURING a throw-in. You've got a very definitive ruling to use right out of the rule book in R4-36-2(b), and you want to say it's not applicable.

Lah me.....

[Dribble]

Originally Posted by jkjenning

...team A was in control, so POI would not apply - there was just no player control.
Were you implying that perhaps because of no player control, then the POI would be correct?

You're correct if you're playing under NCAA rules, but under NFHS, there is no TEAM control in a throw-in situation until the ball is controlled by a player.

[Dribble]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Realistically, you'd deliberately give the ball to the wrong team for a throw-in? Oh my......

Thoughts?

How can you say the above when R4-36-1 says "method of resuming play due to an official's accidental whistle"? The "accidental whistle" occured DURING a throw-in. You've got a very definitive ruling to use right out of the rule book in R4-36-2(b), and you want to say it's not applicable.

Lah me.....

I think you should post the entire rule reference of 4-36 with all articles for everyone. You're taking parts of it here and there to make it applicable to the scenario to justify your argument.