Batter prevents ball from rolling fair

[John Robertson]

I've never had to rule on this play, but I'd like everyone's thoughts anyway:

Nobody on base. Lefthanded hitter up. He swings and barely makes contact. The ball is rolling in foul territory about a foot from the baseline and about 20 feet from home plate. The batter figures it's going to be foul and doesn't bother to run. The first baseman moves in to see if the ball will roll fair. The ball hits a rock or a rut and starts to suddenly veer towards the baseline. The batter realizes he's in trouble and will be an easy out, so he runs toward first base and deliberately kicks the ball in foul territory just before it was going to reach the baseline and become a fair ball.

What would you call? Foul ball? Batter out for interference? Your opinions, please.

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by John Robertson

... and deliberately kicks the ball in foul territory.

I would call out for interference.

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by SC Ump

I would call out for interference.

I have check ASA and NFHS and could not find supporting rules in either, so I am changing my answer to foul ball. Thanks for the post and discussion.

As after my visit to the orthopedic... I stand corrected.

[canump]

Originally Posted by SC Ump

I have check ASA and NFHS and could not find supporting rules in either, so I am changing my answer to foul ball. Thanks for the post and discussion.

As after my visit to the orthopedic... I stand corrected.

You all can call it a foul ball, me I'm calling the out. No offensive player is aloud to WILLINGLY take a play away from a defensive player, a play where the defense has a possible chance to get an out. It does not matter to me if the ball is foul, when you have a ball rolling towards fair territory with plenty of momentum an d in my judgement that ball is going to be fair with plenty of margin and the defensive player is there to pick it up and throw to a base for a possible OUT, I'm calling the interfeirence. If I judge that the ball would not cross the line then I will call the foul ball. If in my judgement the contact was accidental then I will be calling foul ball but when that batter runner does it on purpose to prevent in my mind the out, I'm calling it.
You can rip me apart all you want, i can take it but that's how I handled it when I had it in my game and that's how I will call it again.

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by canump

You all can call it a foul ball, me I'm calling the out. No offensive player is aloud to WILLINGLY take a play away from a defensive player, a play where the defense has a possible chance to get an out. It does not matter to me if the ball is foul, when you have a ball rolling towards fair territory with plenty of momentum an d in my judgement that ball is going to be fair with plenty of margin and the defensive player is there to pick it up and throw to a base for a possible OUT, I'm calling the interfeirence. If I judge that the ball would not cross the line then I will call the foul ball. If in my judgement the contact was accidental then I will be calling foul ball but when that batter runner does it on purpose to prevent in my mind the out, I'm calling it.
You can rip me apart all you want, i can take it but that's how I handled it when I had it in my game and that's how I will call it again.

I totally agree with you on this, I will also call the batter out. It is called doing what is right! Out for being dumb!

[Dakota]

What other rules do you guys ignore / make up because it is doing what is "right"?

[greymule]

You all can call it a foul ball, me I'm calling the out.

Well, that should be the rule. But is it the rule?

It should be that no run can score on a play in which the batter hits a popup and then deliberately clotheslines F3 to prevent a double play. But the rule says otherwise. (This one goes to the top of my list of idiotic rules.)

It should be that an advantageous fourth out on a runner who did not score can nullify a run. But the rule says otherwise.

I'm sure people can think of many other should be's in ASA and other codes. But if there's a rule or case play that covers the situation specifically, you have to hold your nose and follow it. (And is everybody certain that a runner can legally pick up a ball that's two inches foul and clearly rolling fair?)

[RonRef]

Originally Posted by John Robertson

I've never had to rule on this play, but I'd like everyone's thoughts anyway:

Nobody on base. Lefthanded hitter up. He swings and barely makes contact. The ball is rolling in foul territory about a foot from the baseline and about 20 feet from home plate. The batter figures it's going to be foul and doesn't bother to run. The first baseman moves in to see if the ball will roll fair. The ball hits a rock or a rut and starts to suddenly veer towards the baseline. The batter realizes he's in trouble and will be an easy out, so he runs toward first base and deliberately kicks the ball in foul territory just before it was going to reach the baseline and become a fair ball.

What would you call? Foul ball? Batter out for interference? Your opinions, please.

This seems way to easy, call the batter out for being stupid and violating the rules.

[canump]

Originally Posted by John Robertson

I've never had to rule on this play, but I'd like everyone's thoughts anyway:

Nobody on base. Lefthanded hitter up. He swings and barely makes contact. The ball is rolling in foul territory about a foot from the baseline and about 20 feet from home plate. The batter figures it's going to be foul and doesn't bother to run. The first baseman moves in to see if the ball will roll fair. The ball hits a rock or a rut and starts to suddenly veer towards the baseline. The batter realizes he's in trouble and will be an easy out, so he runs toward first base and deliberately kicks the ball in foul territory just before it was going to reach the baseline and become a fair ball.

What would you call? Foul ball? Batter out for interference? Your opinions, please.

I did have this in an Ontario Rural Battam Boys (14 year olds ) and I called the batter out. The ball was spinning back towards the line and in my opinion would have crossed with room to spare. The batter did stand there and after being yelled at by both of his coaches to run took 3 steps and stopped and let the ball roll into him about an inch outside the fair line with the pichter standing waiting to pick up the ball. Of course I got accused of making up the rules in favour of the home team.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by John Robertson

I've never had to rule on this play, but I'd like everyone's thoughts anyway:

Nobody on base. Lefthanded hitter up. He swings and barely makes contact. The ball is rolling in foul territory about a foot from the baseline and about 20 feet from home plate. The batter figures it's going to be foul and doesn't bother to run. The first baseman moves in to see if the ball will roll fair. The ball hits a rock or a rut and starts to suddenly veer towards the baseline. The batter realizes he's in trouble and will be an easy out, so he runs toward first base and deliberately kicks the ball in foul territory just before it was going to reach the baseline and become a fair ball.

What would you call? Foul ball? Batter out for interference? Your opinions, please.

Foul ball. There are no rules to support INT. If the defense can touch the ball prior to coming into fair territory, why cannot the offense? Hell, the fielder is even allowed to throw their glove at the ball to keep it from coming into fair territory!

[Hoosier_Dave]

Foul ball. BR touches foul ball in foul territory. If we have a foul ball and BR touches it inadvertently in foul territory, we still have a foul ball. That way, I'm not trying to figure out intentional vs. inadvertent. I've got enough things to keep track of without trying to jump into a player's head.

If you called BR out, you could justify it by saying it's an unfair act not covered in the rules, and BR kicked the ball to gain an advantage. I could sell either call, but the easier call would be foul ball.

I'd say, "Coach, show me in the rules where it's illegal for a player to kick a FOUL ball. She kicks a FAIR ball, she's out."

[Steve M]

I think we may have a difference in rules with this one. ASA doesn't have any violation on this - per Mike. Fed does cover this. I think it's Rule 7, Section 7, dunno what article covering when the batter is out - if the batter-runner intentionally contacts a ball in (fair or) foul territory - and the ball has a chance of going fair when touched in foul - that's interference, batter-runner is out, and other runners return to their base at time of pitch.

[bigsig]

I would call them out for interference. The way you described it, the batter's actions were to willfully change the balls direction and prevent an out.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by bigsig

I would call them out for interference. The way you described it, the batter's actions were to willfully change the balls direction and prevent an out.

Ah, under the section in the rules labelled, "Willfully changing the ball's direction".

Doesn't the batter make every attempt, while at bat, to willfully change the ball's direction and prevent an out? We don't call them out for that when they succeed, do we?

As noted, in FED, it's INT. In ASA, this is perfectly legal. (Perhaps it SHOULDN'T be, and perhaps we WISH we could call an out here ... but we can't.)

[bluezebra]

Out for interference. And a 5-yard penalty for illegally kiicking a loose bal.

Bob