Should conceding defeat be allowed?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by ASA/NYSSOBLUE

We had a a 7th/8th grade coach here that did basically the same thing - (in NYS, that level has NO run rule...)he would tell the BU to ring up his kids for leaving early if they tried to steal..or even if they stepped off 1st! - you should have seen the look on a kids face the first time that happened! That program schools it kids AND parents very good in sportsmanship, so the parents are not usually a problem when that happens either. I was BU in one of those games once, and by sheer reflex I actually called his BR safe on a banger at 1B.....very strange to get a negative response from the offensive coach when you call one of his kids SAFE...

This is an approach with which I do not agree. Not everyone understands this and it can bring an umpires integrity into play. I tell the coach I will call what I see. If it is that obvious, it is just as much a slap in the face to the team getting thumped as the thumping itself.

I suggest to the coach that they have a conversation with the opposing coach and come to a conclusion without the umpire's being placed in the middle.

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

This is an approach with which I do not agree. Not everyone understands this and it can bring an umpires integrity into play. I tell the coach I will call what I see. If it is that obvious, it is just as much a slap in the face to the team getting thumped as the thumping itself.

I suggest to the coach that they have a conversation with the opposing coach and come to a conclusion without the umpire's being placed in the middle.

I should have clarified that this is usually in the fourth inning after a 'gentlemen's agreement' run rule has been agreed to...especially at home...have never seen an opposing coach complain either - he/she is usually just glad to get their kids out of there..and also, I probably overstated his reaction also, at the time it was more of a dirty look...and also FYI, this gentleman (now deceased) was a fully certified and qualified ASA/NYS umpire.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

Way out of line. I don't chat it up with the coaches at ALL...ESPECIALLY not a conversation trying to get the coach to quit. You are borrowing trouble.

You TOTALLY misread then - you might want to reread. I have no problem with talking to coaches. In my experience, it's the opposite that gets you into trouble. Of course there are times when you stay the hell away - but talking between innings is not a problem for me.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

I have never seen that one in writing. I am in Michigan. Where would that be written?

Do you also tell coaches when their pitchers should throw a change up? Umpires have NO BUSINESS getting involved in this sort of thing.

I think you are very wrong here. I would never tell a coach to quit - never. My post was in talking to the WINNING coach. I agree with one of the other posts - I'm also a compassionate person and feel empathy for the other team. I have told coaches in basketball - without hesitation - when they are continuing to press, and beating a team's brains out "Back 'em up coach" If they don't I start calling the ticky-tack stuff to back them up. There's no sense in humiliating a team. If you think that's wrong - don't have me scheduled for any of your games.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

You TOTALLY misread then - you might want to reread. I have no problem with talking to coaches. In my experience, it's the opposite that gets you into trouble. Of course there are times when you stay the hell away - but talking between innings is not a problem for me.

In 16 years, I have seen the chatting cause some problems.

I cannot fathom any circumstance where just umpiing the game without chatting could possibly cause you a problem.

Tring to convince a coach to quit? Do you actually not see the myriad of potential problems here?

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

This is an approach with which I do not agree. Not everyone understands this and it can bring an umpires integrity into play. I tell the coach I will call what I see. If it is that obvious, it is just as much a slap in the face to the team getting thumped as the thumping itself.

I suggest to the coach that they have a conversation with the opposing coach and come to a conclusion without the umpire's being placed in the middle.

That's sort of what I'm referring to - except they have to step off. I won't call them out for leaving early if they don't leave early. But usually the coach is instructing them to step off to get the out. I have no problem with that.

[WestMichBlue]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

I have never seen that one in writing. I am in Michigan. Where would that be written?

Hopefully you are not a MHSAA registered official; otherwise you have no excuse for making that statement. Read your Officials Guide.

Do you also tell coaches when their pitchers should throw a change up? Umpires have NO BUSINESS getting involved in this sort of thing.

Don't get all bent out of shape, Washburn. All we are talking about are RULES - which I get from reading my Officials Guide. I used the word "descretely" in my post to describe my actions in letting the losing coach know what his legal options are.

WMB

[Andy]

Here in AZ, we do not have time limits on any HS game at any level. We play seven innings. The only game ending rule we have adopted is the 10 runs ahead after 5 innings.

We have some FR and JV coaches that only want to play for a certain time, say 1:30. When they approach the umpire with this request, we have asked our umpires to reply:

Coach, I cannot legally agree to a time limit, but if your team refuses to take the field at any time, I can't force you to do so.....

How the game gets scored is not my concern.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by WestMichBlue

Hopefully you are not a MHSAA registered official; otherwise you have no excuse for making that statement. Read your Officials Guide.

WMB, I had never noticed that one before-thanks for pointing it ot to me.

Page 51. However, that option is in effect ONLY IF: (Schools, leagues or invitational tournament management shall determine which are to be utilized with prior mutual written consent) I do not know of any schools around here that have done this. I will check with my assignor, though.

Thanks,

Joe

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

You TOTALLY misread then - you might want to reread. I have no problem with talking to coaches. In my experience, it's the opposite that gets you into trouble. Of course there are times when you stay the hell away - but talking between innings is not a problem for me.

If you are truly working the levels you quote, I'm amazed you got there. Chatting up with coaches between innings is hard to do from right field, which is where you should be between innings (unless you're U3 - where left field or even center is where you should be). I caught the riot act from an evaluator early in my career for merely being on the 3BL when I should have been in the outfield between innings (as U3).

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

If you are truly working the levels you quote, I'm amazed you got there.

You base my ability to umpire on this forum? You are a funny man! If you are THAT good, you should be able to predict the outcome of a game without a pitch being thrown. For your information, our conference wants the umpires to come down toward the plate instead of in the outfield - glad I don't have your evaluator . . . and since she is also our HS clinician - we do the same there. Guess that makes me available to the coaches.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

If you are truly working the levels you quote, I'm amazed you got there. Chatting up with coaches between innings is hard to do from right field, which is where you should be between innings (unless you're U3 - where left field or even center is where you should be). I caught the riot act from an evaluator early in my career for merely being on the 3BL when I should have been in the outfield between innings (as U3).

I hate that mechanic and have absolutely no problem with umpires occupying the base line between innings. For that matter, I prefer partners be in a position to speak to each other during the game instead of conspicuously standing out in the grass of the outfield.

I consider the reason given for the change to be weak and a sorry excuse for changing a positive mechanic.

[LIIRISHMAN]

I would never approach a coach advising his team to quit. I've had a coach come to me and ask me how to end the game when they were getting beat 20+ or better in the 3rd inning. I then got the other coach involved in the discussion and both teams agreed to end the game.

[JefferMC]

This brought to mind a middle school game I was calling as PU last year. After one inning, the visiting team was up 14-0, the home team out on three successive strikeouts. After two out in the top of the second, the score was 19-0. The home coach asked for a conference with me and the visiting coach. The home coach told the visiting coach basically, it's 19-0, have all your players batted? If so, I'd like you to just let all my players bat and let's go home. They agreed; the players switched sides with the visitor's third string pitcher taking the mound. She was obviously trying not to blow the ball by the batters, but she still struck out the team (yep, team, all 9 batters).

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

I have never seen that one in writing. I am in Michigan. Where would that be written?

I'm not sure of the document's official name, but there is a document that comes out every year that lists the State-Association rules that the MHSAA has chosen to adopt.

I believe, however, it's up to conferenced to adopt these rules, including the 15 run margin at any time rule.