TO Just to Sub (allowed)

riden · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 30, 2006, 03:12pm

In my league we follow NCAA rules.

Common practice in my league (Jr High) to call TO, tell ref it is just to sub. Player substitutions occur and then play continues without players coming to the bench.

This was challenged the other day. Coach A calls TO, subs players and then ref tries to re-start game. Coach B calls his players to the bench and refuses to send them back when official calls to re-start play. Coach B says he has the right to the TO.

Who is correct?

Does a short or long TO effect this??

#2 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 30, 2006, 03:21pm

I would say that if the other coach wants to use the timeout to talk with his players that's his right. If they both agree to just let the sub in then go ahead and play, but my feeling is if the coach wants to use the timeout to coach then allow him the time allowed by the timeout(60 or 30).

If there are local rules that say otherwise then that is a different issue but normally I would say give him the time if they want to use it.

JRutledge · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 30, 2006, 03:23pm

If you are using NCAA rules, then the official was correct. This rule was put in about 2 years ago.

I believe that the 30 second timeouts are used first and the full timeouts are used next if there are no 30 second timeouts left.

Peace

riden · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 30, 2006, 03:25pm

You mean the official was correct to order play re-started?

eyezen · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 30, 2006, 03:30pm

I find it strange that Junior High school would be using NCAA rules but if your going by strict NCAA then yes the calling team has the right to shorten the TO.

Junker · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 30, 2006, 03:30pm

Once the TO is granted, either coach has the right to talk to his team for the entire 30 or 60. No books here, but I know it is in NFHS somewhere and it sounds like NCAA has it as well. Usually when I know a coach wants a TO for subs, I'll tell the opposing team that it's just for subs unless they want to talk to their team.

riden · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 30, 2006, 03:43pm

Jr High in Alberta, Canada Don't ask any more about NCAA rules, it seems silly I know.

This rule seems pretty contentous.

ocreferee · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 30, 2006, 03:44pm

Jeff is correct. Under NCAA rules teams can call a time-out to substitute. In NCAAW it is signaled as a 30 second TO and then the "tiny travel" above the head with your index fingers. Neither team can sit, it is strictly to get the substitutes into the game. We then immediately restart play.

OCReferee

JRutledge · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 30, 2006, 03:59pm

Actually, it is not a shortened timeout. This is a timeout that is used for no other reason but to bring in subs. If you are using NCAA rules all the way, the officials were right.

None of this situation would apply under NF Rules. This is one of these differences that drive everyone crazy.

Peace

Junker · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 30, 2006, 04:10pm

Rut,
Is this correct on both the men's and women's side? I'm new to the NCAA rules and still learning...but then I'm always still learning.

BOBBYMO · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 30, 2006, 04:25pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
If you are using NCAA rules, then the official was correct. This rule was put in about 2 years ago.

I believe that the 30 second timeouts are used first and the full timeouts are used next if there are no 30 second timeouts left.

Peace

J,Rut-

(NCAA ONLY)

We were just having this same conversation here the other day and I could not find anything in the rules book that states that it would be automatically a 30 second time out.

My thoughts / understanding is that we MUST ask the "calling coach" if he/she wants a full or 30. Then report the request even though its just a sub time out.

My reasoning is in 3 of the conferences that I work in they use 1 media time out per 1/2 at the 1st dead ball after the 10 min mark if there has not been a full taken prior to this. ( 30's are allowed).... What if the sub time out request is taken late in the 1st 1/2 and they have already used 1 30.... This would take away their opportunity to use a 30 in the 2nd 1/2 and still be able to save the media.

What are your or anyone elses thoughts on this?????

rockyroad · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 30, 2006, 04:53pm

BOBBYMO, in your situation - ask. It can't hurt to give them the choice...the usual practice is that if they have 30's left, we use those first...then move to the full's...I think you will find that most of the times that you ask you will get some pretty strange looks and automatic replies of "Use the 30."

JRutledge · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 30, 2006, 04:56pm

I have never seen this happen yet in my games over the last couple of years. I think you do what your assignor says without any information either way. I might have to look at the NCAA book to see if there are any guidelines that are made clear.

Peace

BOBBYMO · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 30, 2006, 11:22pm

Thanks Rut-

I have had many more request for 1st 1/2 " sub time outs" this season then ever before... Maybe its a trend or maybe coaches are just finding more ways to use them. I can't find anything in the NCAA book at all concerning this but I always ask.

Its about 1/2 and 1/2 as far as 30's or full's. If they have already used a 30 in the 1st half they will usualy always take a full.

SmokeEater · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Jan 31, 2006, 11:12am

Quote:

Originally posted by riden
Jr High in Alberta, Canada Don't ask any more about NCAA rules, it seems silly I know.

This rule seems pretty contentous.

riden we use the same rule set here in Manitoba, with some further modifications. Read rule 5.10.20 it describes shortening time outs for substitutions.

Smoke

edit to correct rule reference

[Edited by SmokeEater on Jan 31st, 2006 at 11:45 AM]