Ejection during a Home Run

[umpharp]

This is mens slow pitch ASA. one man
During the game, I had a team that was full of jerks....every call was questioned. In the 5th inning, there was a bang bang play at first. I called the runner safe. The first baseman loudly complained and was teetering the line with his comments. Next batter flew out which ended the inning.
The first baseman was the lead off batter next inning. He is still talking about the play. As he steps into the batters box, I inform him that I have heard his thoughts on the play and that I had heard enough from him.
Next pitch is hit over the fence for a Home Run. The player kicks dirt and covers home plate with dirt and says "Take that Blue" As he is rounding first, he kicks dirt on first. I tell him not to do it again. The player turns and gives me the middle finger. I eject him at this point.
My question is....does the run count? He was tossed before crossing home.
I really didn't know whether to count the run.
After getting responses, I'll let you know if I made the right call or not.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by umpharp

This is mens slow pitch ASA. one man
During the game, I had a team that was full of jerks....every call was questioned. In the 5th inning, there was a bang bang play at first. I called the runner safe. The first baseman loudly complained and was teetering the line with his comments. Next batter flew out which ended the inning.
The first baseman was the lead off batter next inning. He is still talking about the play. As he steps into the batters box, I inform him that I have heard his thoughts on the play and that I had heard enough from him.
Next pitch is hit over the fence for a Home Run. The player kicks dirt and covers home plate with dirt and says "Take that Blue" As he is rounding first, he kicks dirt on first. I tell him not to do it again. The player turns and gives me the middle finger. I eject him at this point.
My question is....does the run count? He was tossed before crossing home.
I really didn't know whether to count the run.
After getting responses, I'll let you know if I made the right call or not.

Without looking it up, I'd say no run - but that could be way off. If the BR can be called out on appeal for missing a base, I'd think the run wouldn't count in this case either.

My main question is why did he make it to first base? You warned him when he stepped to the plate. The minute he kicked the dirt he was in violation of the warning. IMO, that's when he should have been tossed.

[bluezebra]

You wait until he touches home, call time, point the way to the parking lot. Report the situation to the league, and to your associatio.

Bob

[mcrowder]

You can't eject him for this during live ball - once he crossed that line (meaning, to me, his actions at the plate ... you waited too long), he's gone.

Of course, you can always announce the ejection right then and there, and see if he leaves the playing field on his own without running the bases - and then the defense could appeal his miss.

[CecilOne]

Isn't this tantamount to a BR getting ejected for throwing a bat?

[John Robertson]

I know that the baseball rulebook informs umpires that an ejection during a home run should be handled by letting the runner complete his trip around the bases and then ejecting him. (This happened in a USA-Cuba game at the Pan-American Games one year, I believe.) So, in other words, let the run score. I suppose if you wanted to make an example of the culprit, you could toss him during his home run trot and make a substitute runner complete his turn around the bases.

[greymule]

I had a team that was full of jerks....every call was questioned.

What? In men's slow pitch? Incredible!

I believe that in ASA (unlike OBR), the perpetrator is immediately out and all other runners return to their bases. This is a fairly recent ASA ruling.

And yes, as soon as the moron kicked dirt on the plate, he's gone.

A few days ago, I saw a SP batter turn to the PU and declare, "You stink, you f*****g bum!" After the natural consequence of this act, a substitute batter entered the box and assumed the count. A little later, I remembered the ASA ruling and figured that the batter, besides being ejected, should have been called out. No substitute batter.

[Dakota]

The ASA ruling which is being referred to here is Case Play 10.8-1 (2004), where a BR throws a bat in anger thinking his fly ball was not a HR, but the ball does clear the fence. The ruling was dead ball, BR ejected and called out for flagrant misconduct (their words: "flagrant misconduct."). HR does not score. Runners return.

[umpharp]

I did wait too long. My plans were to toss him once he finshed running the bases, however when he gave me the finger, I ejected him before he made it to second.
I did not allow the run to score. Again, I wasn't sure if that was the right call and from the sound of things, i'm not sure it was legal to eject him during his running of the bases.....but that is what I did.
I explained to the team that the run didn't score because he never completed running the bases. Even though the team had complained the entire game....they knew the player should have been ejected and did not dispute this ruling....of course three batters later thre was a diving catch in the outfield that sent them into another frenzy but thats beside the point.

[umpharp]

According to the case play Dakota mentions...is the ruling correct not to allow the run?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by John Robertson

I know that the baseball rulebook informs umpires that an ejection during a home run should be handled by letting the runner complete his trip around the bases and then ejecting him. (This happened in a USA-Cuba game at the Pan-American Games one year, I believe.) So, in other words, let the run score. I suppose if you wanted to make an example of the culprit, you could toss him during his home run trot and make a substitute runner complete his turn around the bases.

Wrong game.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by umpharp

According to the case play Dakota mentions...is the ruling correct not to allow the run?

You at least have an official ruling to back up your call. I guess it depends on what is meant by "flagrant misconduct."

[greymule]

I guess it depends on what is meant by "flagrant misconduct."

There's another good point. Is there a difference in how these plays should be ruled?:

Play 1:

BR thinks his fly ball will be caught and viciously flings his bat in anger, shattering the opponents' water cooler. Then as he passes 1B he utters a racial slur and kicks F3. Umpire ejects BR. The ball goes over the fence.

Play 2:

BR thinks his fly ball will be caught and says, for the third time that game, "Ump, you took the bat right out of my hands." Umpire ejects BR. The ball goes over the fence.

I have assumed that any ejection would practically by definition involve flagrant misconduct, but maybe routine ejections don't qualify.

[CecilOne]

greymule"Ump, you took the bat right out of my hands."

To which you say "you must not know how to hold a bat"

[wadeintothem]

sounds to me like ya did good.

Sometimes people treat umps in a way that should end a lot differently than an ejection.. but because we are umpires on a field we have to take their bs.

You had one of them games, we've all been there.

We'll call it the, "if you flip me off while rounding bases i'll impose the God rule" rule.