Not only are the hands part of the bat . . .

[greymule]

Saw this play over the weekend in a men's ASA SP tournament (I was NOT umpiring):

Abel on 3B, Baker on 2B. Charles hits a hard FOUL one-hopper that Abel, in foul ground with his foot still on 3B, cannot avoid. The ball bounces off Abel and ricochets past F5 into LF. Abel and Baker score. Charles to 1B.

The ump ruled it a fair ball under the theory that when the runner has his foot on 3B, he becomes "part of the bag," and since the bag is in fair territory . . .

The defense was not happy about the call, but the offense repeated, "Yeah, the runner is part of the bag."

And the game proceeded from there.

[bluezebra]

Originally Posted by greymule

Saw this play over the weekend in a men's ASA SP tournament (I was NOT umpiring):

Abel on 3B, Baker on 2B. Charles hits a hard FOUL one-hopper that Abel, in foul ground with his foot still on 3B, cannot avoid. The ball bounces off Abel and ricochets past F5 into LF. Abel and Baker score. Charles to 1B.

The ump ruled it a fair ball under the theory that when the runner has his foot on 3B, he becomes "part of the bag," and since the bag is in fair territory . . .

The defense was not happy about the call, but the offense repeated, "Yeah, the runner is part of the bag."

And the game proceeded from there.

A tournament, and no one could set this right? Where was the TD? At the snack bar?

Bob

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by bluezebra

A tournament, and no one could set this right? Where was the TD? At the snack bar?

Bob

Not sure how it works in your part of the world, but the TD has NOTHING to do with addressing rules in our area. If the TD was watching, his opinion and interjection into a game situation would get him a tournament without umpires.

If a team chose to follow a protest procedure, then a UIC might rule; no protest, then the game continues.

[LLPA13UmpDan]

Gee this is a new one to me. It should be ruled a foul ball. Runners return.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Not sure how it works in your part of the world, but the TD has NOTHING to do with addressing rules in our area. If the TD was watching, his opinion and interjection into a game situation would get him a tournament without umpires.

If a team chose to follow a protest procedure, then a UIC might rule; no protest, then the game continues.

Any umpire dumb enough to say that the runner is part of the base would be dumb enough to let TD's interfere in the game.

[greymule]

Where was the TD? At the snack bar?

Were you there, bluezebra? How did you know that that's exactly where he was? And the snack bar is built into the backstop. In other words, the TD was 75 feet from the call.

However, the other posters are correct that the TD would not be called in to rule on such a play, and nobody suggested that. Since the play was entirely correctable (FOUL!), the ump could have checked with the BU or any of several other umps hanging around.

Perhaps this odd ruling stuck because after an initial squawk, the defense just let it go. Most people at the field were not aware of the details of the dispute. Of course, even if the ump thought the ball hit the runner in fair territory, F5 was playing way back, so since the runner was in contact with the base, the ball should have been ruled dead.

[bluezebra]

Originally Posted by greymule

Where was the TD? At the snack bar?

Were you there, bluezebra? How did you know that that's exactly where he was? And the snack bar is built into the backstop. In other words, the TD was 75 feet from the call.

However, the other posters are correct that the TD would not be called in to rule on such a play, and nobody suggested that. Since the play was entirely correctable (FOUL!), the ump could have checked with the BU or any of several other umps hanging around.

Perhaps this odd ruling stuck because after an initial squawk, the defense just let it go. Most people at the field were not aware of the details of the dispute. Of course, even if the ump thought the ball hit the runner in fair territory, F5 was playing way back, so since the runner was in contact with the base, the ball should have been ruled dead.

I meant to say UIC, but had a brain cramp. The UIC doesn't have to observe the play, but should have the ability to rule that this was a foul ball. If the defense didn't lodge a protest, they deserved the dumb call.

...the ump could have checked with the BU or any of several other umps hanging around.


It was the BU's call. Should he check with himself?

Were you there, bluezebra? How did you know that that's exactly where he was? And the snack bar is built into the backstop. In other words, the TD was 75 feet from the call.


Yeah I was there, having a hot dog. It was a rhetorical question. Did you ever hear of those?

Bob

[greymule]

It was a rhetorical question. Did you ever hear of those?

You took my comment entirely wrong, bluezebra. I was not in any way implying that your opinion was invalid because you were not present at the game. I was merely noting that your rhetorical question happened to hit the nail on the head.

It was the BU's call. Should he check with himself?

You know better than that. It's PU's call. Fair/foul.

[bluezebra]

Originally Posted by greymule

It was a rhetorical question. Did you ever hear of those?

You took my comment entirely wrong, bluezebra. I was not in any way implying that your opinion was invalid because you were not present at the game. I was merely noting that your rhetorical question happened to hit the nail on the head.

It was the BU's call. Should he check with himself?

You know better than that. It's PU's call. Fair/foul.

At the base? Does the PU also make safe/out calls there, too?

Bob

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by bluezebra

...the ump could have checked with the BU or any of several other umps hanging around.


It was the BU's call. Should he check with himself?

Speaking slow pitch, I disagree (I suppose fast pitch could be different, but the OP was about slow pitch anyway). At the Regional school I attended this year we were told (which verifies what the book says and what I've always been taught) the BU only makes the fair/foul call on fly balls they go out on, and only when they start on the line.

The ASA umpire manual section states "Plate umpires are responsible for all FAIR or FOUL bounding balls over first or third base, regardless if a base umpire is positioned on the foul line. If there is an umpire on the line, once a batted fly ball goes beyond the umpire, it is the base umpire's responsibility for a FAIR or FOUL signal and voice call."

Also - greymule's earlier post also stated "the BU," implying there was only one in the field - which would mean there would never be a BU starting on the 3B line (let alone the left side of 2B), regardless.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by bluezebra

At the base? Does the PU also make safe/out calls there, too?

Bob

Depending on the situation, yes, in 2 or 3-person mechanics.