New twist on ball thrown out of play

[John Robertson]

I saw this happen the other night...

Runner on first base with nobody out. Batter hits a line drive to center field. The runner is about three-quarters of the way to second base when the center fielder makes a great diving catch. The center fielder then throws wildly to first base in an attempt to make a double play. The ball hits the side fencing and starts rolling towards the out-of-play boundary line in front of the offensive team's bench area. The ball then hits the batter (who was out when the fly ball was caught and was heading toward the bench) on the foot and then rolls out of play. Had it not hit the batter, it certainly would have rolled out of play anyway; no defensive player was close enough to stop it. The umpires ruled that the ball was immediately dead when it hit the batter on the foot, thus denying any advancement on the wild throw going out of play.

I don't know if I agree with this call. Do you?

[greymule]

As long as the batter wasn't doing something unusual or purposely interfering, I would not agree with the call. This is not a blocked ball. It is the same as if it bounced off a coach or someone else engaged in the game and thus allowed on the field.

If the ball hit a player illegally standing outside the dugout, or hit offensive equipment that wasn't supposed to be on the field, that's another story.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by greymule

As long as the batter wasn't doing something unusual or purposely interfering, I would not agree with the call. This is not a blocked ball. It is the same as if it bounced off a coach or someone else engaged in the game and thus allowed on the field.

If the ball hit a player illegally standing outside the dugout, or hit offensive equipment that wasn't supposed to be on the field, that's another story.

Speaking ASA

This is a blocked ball. The retired batter has an obligation to stay out of the play. This isn't as if this player was still completing his running task as a result of the batted ball. As I read the OP, the player was simply returning to the team area and was no longer engaged in the game.

Dead ball. Runner stays at last base touched when ball became blocked.

I will use 8.5.G.3 as a reference even though it only mentions equipment. The same effect is available. You can also cite rule 10. Giving the offense an award because offensive personnel kept the ball from entering DBT makes absolutely no sense at all.

[greymule]

offensive personnel kept the ball from entering DBT

In the OP, the offense didn't keep the ball from entering DBT.

I think this is a HTBT. Was the throw wild enough and hard enough that the batter couldn't avoid it?

Thirty years ago, with my team on defense, our F6 threw wild past 1B on a ground ball, and the 1B coach, in the box, reached up and knocked the ball down to keep it from going into the woods. (In those days, the fields weren't as fancy as they are today.) The ump gave the BR 2B since "the ball would have gone out of play." With the deliberate action of the coach, I would have kept the BR at 1B.

[John Robertson]

In the game I described, the batter who flied out was unaware the ball was anywhere near her. She was casually walking back to her bench when the wild throw struck her gently on the foot. The ball still went into the bench area.

[tcblue13]

R1 on 3B
R2 on 2B
1 out
B3 hits the ball up the 3B line and F5 fields it. In looking R1 back to third, it becomes apparent that she will never make the throw to first in time to retire the BR.
So, she throws the ball into the offensive on deck circle next to the 3B dugout where it strikes a bat.

How would you rule?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by greymule

offensive personnel kept the ball from entering DBT

In the OP, the offense didn't keep the ball from entering DBT.

Sure she did. I still consider it a blocked ball which is a dead ball. Any subsequent action is irrelevant. What if the ball hit the retired batter and deflected to the catcher who in turn threw a runner out. Would you allow the out or kill the play because it was going out of play anyway?

You cannot compare this to a coach as that participant is still engaged in the game as the rules permit.

I think the offense is lucky. Years ago, we were instructed to rule a runner out, play or no play. Thank goodness we pay more attention to the specific rules now.

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by John Robertson

In the game I described, the batter who flied out was unaware the ball was anywhere near her. She was casually walking back to her bench when the wild throw struck her gently on the foot. The ball still went into the bench area.

If this was a situation were a retired batter could not avoid being hit by a thrown ball, then I believe I would rule it a live ball and keep playing. If the batter was casually walking back to the dugout, ignoring her responsibility to keep her head in the game, then I have a blocked ball.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SC Ump

If this was a situation were a retired batter could not avoid being hit by a thrown ball, then I believe I would rule it a live ball and keep playing. If the batter was casually walking back to the dugout, ignoring her responsibility to keep her head in the game, then I have a blocked ball.

Agreed. A player who is retired does not get a free pass just because they have been put out. As long as they're in the field of play, they have a responsibility to avoid anything which could affect the play or, in this case, the status of a live ball.