bat leaves batter's hands (Part II)

[David Emerling]

Situation: R1, fewer than 2 outs, no count on the batter. The hit & run is on. The defense guesses right and throws a pitchout. (same situation as the other thread)

Let's change one thing. This time the batter steps outside the batter's box while swinging. His foot is completely outside the batter's box at the time he hits the ball (in A) and when he hits the catcher's glove (in B & C). As before, the catcher remains legally positioned, neither on or in front of the plate.

The play is repeated below with no changes from the previous:

Play: The batter lunges at the outside pitch, the bat comes out of his hands and then he ...
(A) hits a fair ball
(B) misses the ball but the bat hits the catcher's glove (before the catcher had an opportunity to catch the pitch) resulting in a passed ball with the runner advancing to 3rd.
(C) misses the ball but the bat hits the catcher's glove (after the catcher had secured the pitch), knocking the ball loose and resulting in no play possible on R1.

The bat leaving the batter's hands appeared to be more a result of lunging and over-reaching than any obvious attempt to simply throw his bat. Or, would that matter?

Ruling for (A), (B), and (C)?

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[Edited by David Emerling on Nov 14th, 2005 at 12:15 PM]

[Rich Ives]

JEA says a batter cannot jump or step out of the batter's box to hit the ball.

As it's a legal hit if the foot is not both on the ground and completely out of the box, then I think that a step out is not accomplished until both conditions are met.

Therefore in A) if he hits it before the conditions are met it's a hit and if not he's out.

Same logic should apply for B) and C) as to whether he's out of the box or not.

The several JEA plays on 6.06 are consistent in saying the foot must be on the ground and completely out of the box to have a violation.

[David Emerling]

Originally posted by Rich Ives
JEA says a batter cannot jump or step out of the batter's box to hit the ball.

As it's a legal hit if the foot is not both on the ground and completely out of the box, then I think that a step out is not accomplished until both conditions are met.

Therefore in A) if he hits it before the conditions are met it's a hit and if not he's out.

Same logic should apply for B) and C) as to whether he's out of the box or not.

The several JEA plays on 6.06 are consistent in saying the foot must be on the ground and completely out of the box to have a violation.

You're just on fire today, hey Rich?

Are you saying that 6.06 addresses instances where the batter is completely outside the batter's box and fails to make contact with the ball?

OBR 6.06(a) - A batter is out for illegal action when he hits a ball with one or both feet on the ground entirely outside the batter's box.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[Rich Ives]

I'm suggesting that if he's out of the box his swing is not legitimate thus it's just interference with the catcher's play, but if he's still "in" the box then call CI or the backswing thing.

[mcrowder]

I'm having trouble with the order of events. Did the step land clearly before the bat left the batter's hands? If so - how his this bat sent on a trajectory TOWARD the catcher? Very odd. TWP for sure.

That said - it's only illegal to HIT the ball while outside the batter's box. It's not illegal to ATTEMPT to hit, and miss.

I still have CI (really, CO) in B. I can't even visualize C, but it sounds like interference on the batter to me.

For B to happen (whether the batter is out of the box or not), the catcher clearly has to be encroaching on the batter's territory. Can't do that - and if something bad happens, it's your fault, catch.

[SanDiegoSteve]

I am still having trouble seeing the catcher's interference in B, as I was in Part 1. Please tell me how it is possible to blame the catcher for contacting a bat that was released by the hitter.

[Rich Ives]

Because it is a legal attempt at hitting a pitch.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally posted by Rich Ives
Because it is a legal attempt at hitting a pitch.

Okay, so all I have to do as a batter, who can't get a hit any other way, is to throw my bat at the catcher whenever I want to get on base, because I technically am legally attempting to hit the pitch. Man, my OBP would be 1.000, because I would do it every time.

Here we had a pitchout, and the catcher had left his box to field the pitch, the batter throws his bat at the ball, but misses the ball, and somehow gets lucky and hits the mitt instead, and THEN gets rewarded for his inability to hit the ball. Bad rule.

[mcrowder]

SDS and PWL - in answering these, I'm sure we are supposed to assume this was a legitimate attempt to hit the ball. Pitch is outside, batter swinging, bat comes out as he tries to reach it.

I guarantee you that if you throw your bat AT the catcher (or are not making an obvious attempt to hit the ball), you won't get CI, and might get tossed. If it was not a legitimate attempt to hit the ball (even if the release of the bat was intentional, it must be done in effort to HIT THE BALL), then none of these rulings apply.

For me to picture this - batter swinging and reaching on an outside pitch, and the bat comes out of his hands while he's trying to hit the ball - if the catcher is far enough forward that the bat hits the catcher's mitt before the ball arrives, then the catcher has come too far forward and is clearly guilty of CI (CO).

[Rich Ives]

Originally posted by David Emerling

You're just on fire today, hey Rich?

Are you saying that 6.06 addresses instances where the batter is completely outside the batter's box and fails to make contact with the ball?

OBR 6.06(a) - A batter is out for illegal action when he hits a ball with one or both feet on the ground entirely outside the batter's box.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

JEA says you can't leave the box to hit a pitch. Therefore if you do AND interfere with the catcher, it must be interference. Note that to be considered out of the box at least one foot has to be on the ground completely out of the box.

[Rich Ives]

Originally posted by PWL

With a runner on the move I wouldn't consider this a legal attempt to hit the ball. I've seen batter's interference called for less than this, especially if he is out ouf the batter's box.

If the runner's moving the batter can't try to hit the ball? Nonsense!


I already said I'd consider it interference if the batter was out of the box.