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Old Mon Jul 10, 2006, 02:33pm
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Another Obstruction play...

No runners, B1 hits a single into left field.

F3 standing on insde corner of first base watching F7 field the ball. BR has to take a wide turn around first to avoid F3. My left arm goes out for OBS. BR rounds first and stops to find the ball. Third base coach, noticing that I have my arm out for OBS, yells at BR to go to second. BR takes off for second, and is tagged sliding into the base. I call "DEAD BALL", announce the obstruction, and send the runner back to first base.

I know that this is a judgement call and a HTBT, but I would like any comments.

I also got no questions regarding this call....I'm not sure anybody but my partner (and that is questionable) knew what I called.
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Old Mon Jul 10, 2006, 02:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy
No runners, B1 hits a single into left field.


F3 standing on insde corner of first base watching F7 field the ball. BR has to take a wide turn around first to avoid F3. My left arm goes out for OBS. BR rounds first and stops to find the ball. Third base coach, noticing that I have my arm out for OBS, yells at BR to go to second. BR takes off for second, and is tagged sliding into the base. I call "DEAD BALL", announce the obstruction, and send the runner back to first base.

I know that this is a judgement call and a HTBT, but I would like any comments.

I also got no questions regarding this call....I'm not sure anybody but my partner (and that is questionable) knew what I called.
Technically, the BR is only protected to the base to which they would have gotten had there been no OBS, which would be first. BUT, looks like the DDB signal has put the runner in jeopardy, so I may have done the same thing. Like you said, HTBT.

For some reason, many F3s in the SP league I ump for feel like they need to be standing on 1B on a hit to the OF, not sure what they're thinking...
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Old Mon Jul 10, 2006, 02:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy
No runners, B1 hits a single into left field.

F3 standing on insde corner of first base watching F7 field the ball. BR has to take a wide turn around first to avoid F3. My left arm goes out for OBS. BR rounds first and stops to find the ball. Third base coach, noticing that I have my arm out for OBS, yells at BR to go to second. BR takes off for second, and is tagged sliding into the base. I call "DEAD BALL", announce the obstruction, and send the runner back to first base.

I know that this is a judgement call and a HTBT, but I would like any comments.

I also got no questions regarding this call....I'm not sure anybody but my partner (and that is questionable) knew what I called.
Was your arm still out after the runner rounded and stopped?
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Old Mon Jul 10, 2006, 04:10pm
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I can't tell from the OP "F3 standing on insde corner of first base watching F7 field the ball. BR has to take a wide turn around first to avoid F3. My left arm goes out for OBS. BR rounds first and stops to find the ball" whether the BR is impeded before or after reaching 1st.
If after, let's talk.
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Old Mon Jul 10, 2006, 04:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dweezil24
Technically, the BR is only protected to the base to which they would have gotten had there been no OBS, which would be first. BUT, looks like the DDB signal has put the runner in jeopardy, so I may have done the same thing. Like you said, HTBT.

For some reason, many F3s in the SP league I ump for feel like they need to be standing on 1B on a hit to the OF, not sure what they're thinking...
No, dweezil. She's also protected between the bases where the obstruction occurred. If the fielder was directly on the base, then you generally give the runner the benefit of being protected between that base and the next one (between 1st and 2nd in this case). However, that doesn't mean the AWARD is necessarily 2nd base. I think that in the OP, since the runner was not just running to 2nd, and only ran after the OBS signal was seen, I would award 1st base. Sounds like the OP made the correct ruling on the field.
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Old Mon Jul 10, 2006, 04:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne
I can't tell from the OP "F3 standing on insde corner of first base watching F7 field the ball. BR has to take a wide turn around first to avoid F3. My left arm goes out for OBS. BR rounds first and stops to find the ball" whether the BR is impeded before or after reaching 1st.
If after, let's talk.
HTBT, but just as much of that "wide turn" probably came after touching the base than before, so, in my judgment, part of the act of OBS came between 1B & 2B.
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Old Mon Jul 10, 2006, 04:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA
HTBT, but just as much of that "wide turn" probably came after touching the base than before, so, in my judgment, part of the act of OBS came between 1B & 2B.
That's why I asked.
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Old Mon Jul 10, 2006, 05:26pm
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Mike and mcrowder have pretty much captured my thinking process.

Obstuction has been a personal POE for me for the last year or so. I felt like I was missing too many calls and not ruling properly on the ones I did call. This call in particular, at first base on a hit, has been part of my focus.

This was a B level tournament, so it is entirely possible that the player had not been coached properly to get away from the bag on a hit, then come in behind the runner for a possible throw.

In most cases on this call, nothing is going to happen, and few will even notice the arm out for OBS. On this particular play, somebody noticed and it resulted in a play I had to make a ruling on. I'm comfortable with my ruling on the field.

I posted here to bring attention to this type of OBS, because I notice a lot of umpires on a base hit are lazy about getting into the infield and making the pivot to watch the BR touch first and pick up this particular type of OBS.
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Old Mon Jul 10, 2006, 05:48pm
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There is no reason an umpire should NOT call OBS when s/he sees it. The old "well, she wasn't going anywhere anyway" BS is a cop-out and not worthy of discussion.

You see it, you call it. We are not mindreaders. None of us really KNOW what's going to happen next. We know what SHOULD happen next, but when that doesn't happen is when we end up posting the play here.

Too many umpires think the "if I don't see it, I don't have to rule on it" attitude gets them by. Another weak excuse for not doing the job. These guys/gals forget that there is no requirement to move runners or make a game-deciding decision, just review the play in your mind and place a runner where you believe they would have advanced/retreated had the OBS not occured.

To the other extreme, you have guys out there looking for a reason to penalize a player. You have umpires thinking "What a putz. I'll teach him not to block the base and give the runner an extra base. Ha! That'll show'em."

Give me a break. This rule is not that hard to recognize or apply. Yeah, there may be a TWP that will require a little extra exercise of the gray matter, but that's why we get paid.

JMHO
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Old Mon Jul 10, 2006, 06:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy
... snip ... I posted here to bring attention to this type of OBS, because I notice a lot of umpires on a base hit are lazy about getting into the infield and making the pivot to watch the BR touch first and pick up this particular type of OBS.
As PU, I'm watching the BR until I know the BU has a good angle, unless I'm occupied with a ball hit to left or lead runners.


edited from PU to BU
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Last edited by CecilOne; Tue Jul 11, 2006 at 07:11am.
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Old Tue Jul 11, 2006, 07:08am
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne
As PU, I'm watching the BR until I know the PU has a good angle, unless I'm occupied with a ball hit to left or lead runners.
Wow, you have enough umpires to assign two guys to the plate on each game? I'm impressed
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Old Tue Jul 11, 2006, 08:29am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA
HTBT, but just as much of that "wide turn" probably came after touching the base than before, so, in my judgment, part of the act of OBS came between 1B & 2B.
I agree, but the reason for my question (about the arm being still out after rounding 1B) was that the arm was now signalling to the coach that the runner was still protected. Hence, the correct call was made (protecting the runner).

I know that the arm being dropped does NOT mean the protection is dropped, but if the arm is still out, it means protection is still in force.
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Old Tue Jul 11, 2006, 08:33am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA
Wow, you have enough umpires to assign two guys to the plate on each game? I'm impressed
One for balls/strikes, one for runners and checking bats. The question is whether there is also any BU.
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Old Wed Jul 12, 2006, 03:42pm
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We are under USSSA rules. Obstruction for U-Trip is automatically next base.That makes me caustious to call obstruction on a play like the orignal post. How can I call it when I know in my head that the B/R wouldn't have made 2nd anyway.
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Old Wed Jul 12, 2006, 03:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIIRISHMAN
We are under USSSA rules. Obstruction for U-Trip is automatically next base.That makes me caustious to call obstruction on a play like the orignal post. How can I call it when I know in my head that the B/R wouldn't have made 2nd anyway.
Alright, I do not know U-Trip rules, but it seems to me that you are applying the ASA standard (where would runner end up without obstruction happening) to the U-Trip game which appears to actually penalize a team for commiting the "foul" of obstruction. I'd say, call it and call it and call it - every time. If you enforce enough calls of actually advancing the runner a base because of the infraction by the defense, they might just wise up and stop committing obstruction.

ASA ball and every other sanctioning body I work - if I see obstruction, the arm goes out.
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