"Over the batter's head"?!

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by NDblue

Well, it's not a live ball in SP w/o stealing and I will bring this up to our state UIC who can bring it up to our regional UIC. Don't shoot the messenger here, I'm just repeating what I was told by people that are supposed to be in the know. I still think it should be an out no matter what the count is.

good save
lol

Ask your regional UIC about whether its a live ball in any real game though.

Even in SP w/o stealing.. a foul tip is only an out with 2 strikes...

[NDblue]

Originally Posted by wadeintothem

Ask your regional UIC about whether its a live ball in any real game though.

So what you're saying is that SP w/o stealing isn't a real game?

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by NDblue

So what you're saying is that SP w/o stealing isn't a real game?

Just goofin with some.. no offense intended.

Anyway, you were clearly backed into a corner and reached and dug around for the circumstance where a tip wouldnt be live and have yet to support how a tip is an out at all counts.

in any case, your state UIC and regional UIC are correct, in the high energy sport that is SP w/o stealing, the ball is dead.

For the rest of the sport though, its live.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by NDblue

Well, it's not a live ball in SP w/o stealing and I will bring this up to our state UIC who can bring it up to our regional UIC. Don't shoot the messenger here, I'm just repeating what I was told by people that are supposed to be in the know. I still think it should be an out no matter what the count is.

Speaking ASA

A foul tip is a foul tip regardless of the game being played. The effect of the foul tip is different, but I can assure you that it can never be an out unless the batter had two strikes at the time of the pitch.

The following is from the April Rules Clarification on the ASA Umpire's web page:


ASA Foul Ball / Foul Tip for 2006


Additional Clarification
The ASA Foul Ball / Foul Tip 2006 Rule Change Clarification appeared in the January 2006 Edition of the Rules Clarifications and Plays. However, because of umpire comments and questions received during Association Rules Clinics and National Umpire Schools, five words have been added to the last sentence of the first paragraph to further clarify the difference between a foul ball and a foul tip. The new first paragraph of the 2006 Rule Clarifications and Plays – January Edition should now read as follows (change is in italics and underlined):

Starting this season, 2006, the reference of the “height of the batter’s head” has been removed from the rulebook from the Foul Ball and Foul Tip definitions. This allows more opportunity for the catcher to obtain “outs” by catching foul batted balls the same as the first and third base person who is playing in. Umpires now only need to judge whether the ball moves from the bat “sharply” and “directly” versus a ball that has a “perceptible” arc and/or the catcher moves the glove to catch the ball after contact with the bat.

[Mountaineer]

OK, I must have missed something. A regular occurance in my life! Are we calling this a foul-tip or a caught foul ball. I thought the original post said it popped UP a foot or so. It's probably a HTBT, but if in the umpire's judgement it went high enough - it's a caught foul pop - not a foul tip. If it's a foul tip that's caught, then yes it's an out only if there are 2 strikes - if it's a foul ball, I've still got an out.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

OK, I must have missed something. A regular occurance in my life! Are we calling this a foul-tip or a caught foul ball. I thought the original post said it popped UP a foot or so. It's probably a HTBT, but if in the umpire's judgement it went high enough - it's a caught foul pop - not a foul tip. If it's a foul tip that's caught, then yes it's an out only if there are 2 strikes - if it's a foul ball, I've still got an out.

You are correct, the OP concerned an caught foul ball. I believe the issue of the "foul tip" arose when "higher than the batter's head" comment was made.

As we all know, that's "requirement" for a ball to be caught for an out is a myth and I believe that is where the thread went awry.

[gsf23]

Originally Posted by NDblue

Foul tip directly into the catchers mitt is an "out" according to our state and regional UIC. This is ASA of course and why wouldn't it be an out? Batter swings, makes contact with the ball and it's caught before touching the ground. Why wouldn't that be an out no matter what the count is?

I think Walt is getting a bit of the "old timers" setting in...

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by aceholleran

Maybe some of youze slo-pitch people can help here. The only softball I do is LL (all levels), whose rules are essentially those of fastpitch, I believe.

This line of the post totally confused me. I assumed, wrongly, apparently, that we were talking SP since the you made reference to "slo-pitch" people. There are probably more FP people here than SP. My reaction to this post was where is bunting ever allowed in SP, but now I see that you are talking about FP.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

You are correct, the OP concerned an caught foul ball. I believe the issue of the "foul tip" arose when "higher than the batter's head" comment was made.

As we all know, that's "requirement" for a ball to be caught for an out is a myth and I believe that is where the thread went awry.

OK, I was afraid my filter got stuck on again. . .

[Tru_in_Blu]

I didn't want to start a new post, so added to this one after doing a search.

We do several SP leagues which provide for an "extra" foul ball after the batter has two strikes.

I do not recall seeing a SP foul tip. All those goofy swings that barely contact the ball often result in a little loopy foul ball that F2 can sometimes reach for an out.

My hypothetical situation is if a batter has two strikes "and one to spare" and then we have a foul tip [sharply, directly back to the catcher's glove and held], do we have a strike out or move to "two strikes and none to spare"?

I have my opinion and have heard from a couple of my local guys. Thought I'd put it out there for some inputs.

Thanx.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

I didn't want to start a new post, so added to this one after doing a search.

We do several SP leagues which provide for an "extra" foul ball after the batter has two strikes.

I do not recall seeing a SP foul tip. All those goofy swings that barely contact the ball often result in a little loopy foul ball that F2 can sometimes reach for an out.

My hypothetical situation is if a batter has two strikes "and one to spare" and then we have a foul tip [sharply, directly back to the catcher's glove and held], do we have a strike out or move to "two strikes and none to spare"?

I have my opinion and have heard from a couple of my local guys. Thought I'd put it out there for some inputs.

Thanx.

Unless the local association has a rule specifically providing for this, I have a strike and an out. In terms of rules, a foul tip is handled the same as a called strike.

[AtlUmpSteve]

A courtesy (or extra) foul with two strikes applies to batted balls that meet the definition of a "foul ball".

A foul tip is not a foul ball, and if with two strikes is strike three (and a live ball when stealing is allowed) by every definition in the rule book.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

...My hypothetical situation is if a batter has two strikes "and one to spare" and then we have a foul tip [sharply, directly back to the catcher's glove and held], do we have a strike out or move to "two strikes and none to spare"?...

As already said, since a foul tip is not a foul ball (spare or otherwise), you have strike 3.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Unless the local association has a rule specifically providing for this, I have a strike and an out. In terms of rules, a foul tip is handled the same as a called strike.

Or a swinging strike.

[NCASAUmp]

I've always been surprised that there's no verbal for a foul tip. It's just brushing off the fingers, then go into a hammer. That's it. No verbal.

Just about anytime I've ever called it, I've always had confused players.