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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 20, 2006, 12:34pm
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Out of play rules, 3rd base side (no fence)

Hi all,

Saw this call the other night at a ‘fenceless’ diamond, what would you call?

Hard hit grounder well past third (fair) into left field, but with an arc and spin on it that is now sending it into foul territory.

Ball ends up rolling through foul territory and beyond the imaginary line where a 3rd-base-side fence should be.

F7 runs over, picks up ball and relays in. Effectively, she has jumped the fence and her entire body was out of play along with the ball.

BR is rounding 3B, but PU calls time and sends BR back to 3rd … “Ball out of play!!!”

2 Questions:

1) Should he have awarded her the one base and given the home run? I’m kind of linking it to the ‘unintentionally carries the ball into the dugout’ scenario.

2) Please remind me of a basic a fly ball rule … let’s say there is a fence, do we have an out if F7 reaches over the 3rd base side fence and catches a foul ball?

Thanks in advance for any comments, etc..
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Old Tue Jun 20, 2006, 12:36pm
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This should be covered at plate conferences on a field like this - but generally this is a ground rule double.

Incidentally, once the ball crossed the line, the ball is dead - fielder's actions or lack thereof become immaterial to the situation.
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Old Tue Jun 20, 2006, 12:49pm
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Maybe I'm missing something here (probable!). Is this a batted ball that goes into dead ball territory? That's a two base award from the time of the pitch.

I agree with mcrowder, was this covered in pregame conference? If DB territory is not clearly marked, you need to define it in pregame. From what I've read, in my game the BR goes back to second.
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Old Tue Jun 20, 2006, 01:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountaineer
Maybe I'm missing something here (probable!). Is this a batted ball that goes into dead ball territory? That's a two base award from the time of the pitch.

I agree with mcrowder, was this covered in pregame conference? If DB territory is not clearly marked, you need to define it in pregame. From what I've read, in my game the BR goes back to second.
Exactly.

And yes, any batted ball the fielder can reach and catch in flight is an out, as long as the fielder is in play.
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Old Tue Jun 20, 2006, 02:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne
Exactly.

And yes, any batted ball the fielder can reach and catch in flight is an out, as long as the fielder is in play.
And pray it isn't a catch and carry . . .
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Old Tue Jun 20, 2006, 03:15pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountaineer
And pray it isn't a catch and carry . . .
Those are fun, because no matter what we rule, no one knows whether we are correct, except that we are always wrong.

Some others have suggested that I should pray on every call anyway.
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Old Tue Jun 20, 2006, 03:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne
Some others have suggested that I should pray on every call anyway.
And some have suggested I STOP praying and open my eyes!
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Old Tue Jun 20, 2006, 04:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountaineer


And some have suggested I STOP praying and open my eyes!
Originally Posted by CecilOne
Some others have suggested that I should pray on every call anyway.

Just goes to show that no matter what you call - One side isn't going to be happy
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Old Tue Jun 20, 2006, 06:36pm
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Speaking Softball Canada (because that's what bobbrix officiates, iirc). . .

1) As others have already said, it's a two-base award. See Rule 8-7i:

Quote:
Runners are entitled to advance without liability to be put out when a fair ball bounces over, or rolls under or through a fence or any designated boundary of the playing field. . .

EFFECT - The ball is dead and all runners are awarded two bases from the time of pitch.
2) The Softball Canada ruleset is not explicitly clear about what constitutes a legal catch in this case, but it is covered in the case book. See cases 1-36 and 8-88.

For this to be a legally caught fly ball, the fielder must first touch the ball while any part of his/her body is still in playable territory and must establish possession before any part of the DBT is contacted.

When there is no fence, then theoretically the fielder can leap for the ball and make a legal catch provided that s/he touched the ball before his/her trailing ankle crossed over the dead-ball line and that s/he didn't bobble the ball after coming down in DBT. Of course any runner(s) would be awarded one base.
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Old Wed Jun 21, 2006, 07:12am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celebur
... snip ... When there is no fence, then theoretically the fielder can leap for the ball and make a legal catch provided that s/he touched the ball before his/her trailing ankle crossed over the dead-ball line and that s/he didn't bobble the ball after coming down in DBT. Of course any runner(s) would be awarded one base.
You are implying the fielder being in DBT is caused by crossing the plane of the DBT line in the air ("trailing ankle crossed over the dead-ball line"). As far as I know, it's the last ground touched, no matter how far the "leap".
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Old Wed Jun 21, 2006, 07:13am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tzme415
Originally Posted by CecilOne
Some others have suggested that I should pray on every call anyway.

Just goes to show that no matter what you call - One side isn't going to be happy
Line of the day
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Old Wed Jun 21, 2006, 02:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne
You are implying the fielder being in DBT is caused by crossing the plane of the DBT line in the air ("trailing ankle crossed over the dead-ball line"). As far as I know, it's the last ground touched, no matter how far the "leap".
Maybe I'm misinterpretting this--I don't have the Softball Canada casebook right now, but I believe the wording is that the fielder must first touch the ball before his/her body is entirely in DBT, and that control must be established before touching down in DBT. Because they list these two as separate requirements, I interpret this to mean that if the fielder leaps from playable territory, he/she must still touch the ball before completely crossing the plane of DBT.

If it's the last ground touched that matters, then I don't think they would have separated these two conditions in this way. Is it to be understood that one is not in DBT until one touches down in DBT? When I have a chance, I'll try to post the actual wording from the casebook.
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Old Wed Jun 21, 2006, 03:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountaineer


And some have suggested I STOP praying and open my eyes!
Now, Larry. To semi-quote a friend of mine - "What rule sez I have to see it?!? I just have to call it." And this guy is a one-eyed ump who even has a handicapped license plate.
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Old Wed Jun 21, 2006, 08:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve M
Now, Larry. To semi-quote a friend of mine - "What rule sez I have to see it?!? I just have to call it." And this guy is a one-eyed ump who even has a handicapped license plate.
Sure - heck in WV, we call em all by sound anyway . . .
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