Base on Balls Trick Play

[Coach1249]

What is the correct ruling on the following play. A pitcher issues a base on balls. The catcher throws down to first, the first basemans keeps the ball in his glove. The batter trots down to first, steps on the bag and steps off for a moment. The first baseman tags the runner. Is the runner automatically out? Does the runner need to have the intention of going to second to be called out?

Thanks for any help

[mcrowder]

Define "Steps off".

The ball is live on a base on balls - and this is not even a trick play. Could just be smart baseball if the team has shown a propensity to run that batter-runner to 2nd on a base-on-balls, especially with other runners on base.

If the batter-runner overran the base and came back - he's not out. If the batter-runner ran to the bag, stopped, and then stepped off - he's out.

[Coach1249]

The batter stepped on the bag and took one step off on the second base side. I do not believe the player had any intention of going to second. Previous players were not making attempts to take second base on walks.

[wobster]

The way I would call is that once he steps off that side toward second, it is the same as a lead off and can be tagged out.

[Kaliix]

The ball is still live on a walk.

In FED, the runner cannot over-run first on a walk and if he steps off the bag in anyway after having aquired first (by stepping on it) he can be tagged out.

In OBR, you can over-run 1st.

However, taking a step a step off towards second is not overrunning the bag and he is out if tagged.

My question is why wasn't the player or coach paying attention to the throw down to first and the fact that the 1st baseman still had the ball?!?!?

Check out below for rule quote


"ozzy6900
Senior Member

Registered: Jan 2002
Posts: 101
Batter Walks
FED 8-2-6 A batter-runner who reaches 1st base safely then overruns or overslides may immediately return without liability of being put out provided he does not attempt or feint an advance to 2nd. A player who is awarded 1st base on a base on balls does not have this right. (my emphasis)

OBR 7.08 (c) EXCEPTION A batter runner cannot be tagged out after overrunning or oversliding 1st base if he returns immediately to the base.

There is no reference made in OBR as there is in FED to a batter runner who walks so you cannot impose any penalty. However, the J/R states that if a batter runner attains 1st base on a base on balls and steps off on the home plate side of 1st, the batter runner can be tagged out (2004 BRD). I would not want to call that one!"

[GarthB]

Originally posted by Coach1249
What is the correct ruling on the following play. A pitcher issues a base on balls. The catcher throws down to first, the first basemans keeps the ball in his glove. The batter trots down to first, steps on the bag and steps off for a moment. The first baseman tags the runner. Is the runner automatically out? Does the runner need to have the intention of going to second to be called out?

Thanks for any help

He's out. No different from taking the first step of a lead off.

Intent has nothing to do with it. If he absent mindedly stepped off on the foul side of the bag to talk to his first base coach and got tagged he'd still be out.

[surferfletch]

I admit I had a similar occurence where I was the runner. We were playing a school for juvenile delinquents in a JV high school game on a Saturday morning. The pitcher attempted to pick me off and the first baseman held the ball long enough for me to stand up, dust myself off, look over to the mound to see the pitcher staring off into the distance, then start to take my lead. I was then tagged out. That first baseman was ecstatic! They are probably still telling that story at the school! I always let my runner know where the ball was after that. I saw in another thread that if the pitcher had been on the rubber without the ball, I would've gotten second on a balk.

[bigwes68]

Originally posted by surferfletch
I admit I had a similar occurence where I was the runner. We were playing a school for juvenile delinquents in a JV high school game on a Saturday morning. The pitcher attempted to pick me off and the first baseman held the ball long enough for me to stand up, dust myself off, look over to the mound to see the pitcher staring off into the distance, then start to take my lead. I was then tagged out. That first baseman was ecstatic! They are probably still telling that story at the school! I always let my runner know where the ball was after that. I saw in another thread that if the pitcher had been on the rubber without the ball, I would've gotten second on a balk.

I pulled that as a first baseman one time in a Babe Ruth game. I feinted the throw back to the mound, and the kid gets up off the base and takes his lead without ever looking at the pitcher. I tag him out, but of course the BU (who was like 60 and admitted to me that he couldn't see anymore) wasn't looking. Luckily, the PU saw it and called the kid out.

Same umpire, same 2 teams -- I'm on 2B and I see the opposing pitcher is going from the windup. When he starts his motion, I break for 3B; he stops halfway to the plate and throws to third. The umpire calls me out. I go about halfway ballistic because it should have been a balk; PU calls the balk and puts me on third.

Sad to say, I had to umpire with this guy a few years later.