Inspection of helmets before games

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by mo99

I happen to love my house!!!

Jeff
NFHS Umpire
NCAA Umpire
ASA Umpire

That is an important issue here. If you don't walk the field and check the equipment you are liable if a kid gets injured. I also carry a sharpie pen in my ball bag and mark the new game balls with my initials before the game (and with any new ball that comes into the game during the game). After a ball has been batted a few times it can loose the cor and compression markings - but if it has my initials on there, I know it's a good ball.

Bottom line is safety and insurance. By checking equipment and walking and inspecting the field - you are helping insure the safety of the kids primarily and your family possessions secondly.

[tcblue13]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

That is an important issue here. If you don't walk the field and check the equipment you are liable if a kid gets injured. I also carry a sharpie pen in my ball bag and mark the new game balls with my initials before the game (and with any new ball that comes into the game during the game). After a ball has been batted a few times it can loose the cor and compression markings - but if it has my initials on there, I know it's a good ball.

Bottom line is safety and insurance. By checking equipment and walking and inspecting the field - you are helping insure the safety of the kids primarily and your family possessions secondly.

That is a great idea to mark the balls. I have had coaches throw cr@p into the game after balls hit OOP.
I am not sure that I would use my initials. I think the game date woud be better or the visiting team name.
Just a thought for what it's worth .02

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

That is an important issue here. If you don't walk the field and check the equipment you are liable if a kid gets injured. I also carry a sharpie pen in my ball bag and mark the new game balls with my initials before the game (and with any new ball that comes into the game during the game). After a ball has been batted a few times it can loose the cor and compression markings - but if it has my initials on there, I know it's a good ball.

Bottom line is safety and insurance. By checking equipment and walking and inspecting the field - you are helping insure the safety of the kids primarily and your family possessions secondly.

I used to use a sharpie, now I use a ball point pen. It seems to hold up better than a sharpie. But that's something I forgot to mention ealier - we do need & want to know that the ball that has just been tossed in to us is the same ball that went out of play.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

That is an important issue here. If you don't walk the field and check the equipment you are liable if a kid gets injured. I also carry a sharpie pen in my ball bag and mark the new game balls with my initials before the game (and with any new ball that comes into the game during the game). After a ball has been batted a few times it can loose the cor and compression markings - but if it has my initials on there, I know it's a good ball.

Bottom line is safety and insurance. By checking equipment and walking and inspecting the field - you are helping insure the safety of the kids primarily and your family possessions secondly.

In a HS game, I don't believe the umpire is liable. It is a preventive umpiring issue that works well. The reason you can ask coaches in HS concerning the proper equipment, but not in ASA or whatever, is because the kids are wards of the school during any school-sanctioned activity.

In ASA or whatever, there is no loco parentis for the purpose of responsibility for a minor.

An umpire would be liable if they knowingly allowed a piece of damaged/non-approved equipment to be used during the game and it resulted in an injury.

Same at the ASA level. The umpires are to check equipment, but it does not relieve the teams of their liabilities.

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

In a HS game, I don't believe the umpire is liable. It is a preventive umpiring issue that works well. The reason you can ask coaches in HS concerning the proper equipment, but not in ASA or whatever, is because the kids are wards of the school during any school-sanctioned activity.

In ASA or whatever, there is no loco parentis for the purpose of responsibility for a minor.

An umpire would be liable if they knowingly allowed a piece of damaged/non-approved equipment to be used during the game and it resulted in an injury.

Same at the ASA level. The umpires are to check equipment, but it does not relieve the teams of their liabilities.

The one problem I have with your statement about liability in high school games, is that, at least here in NY, is that you as officials are acting as agents of the New York Public High School Athletic Assn., and so are acting (indirectly I will admit) as agents of the school systems. Also in NY, most of the games outside NYC are assigned by, and paid for by an organization called BOCES, which is another organization of local school districts which centralizes technical training, and also acts as the scheduler and overseer of athletic contests in each region. WE have been told we ARE liable, since WE are the representitives of both entities. This is also what gives us the authority over whatever school employees happen to be at a game (security, custodial workers, etc..) Now, it might be different elsewhere, but this is what we are told anyways....

As I said, this has never been a real problem here, as 99.9% of the teams have the 'bats n' hats' out for inspection without having to ask so...


Lou
ASA/NYSSO/CHVBGSO/PONY [did I miss one? ]


the technical term for all of this, I believe, is called covering yer butt!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by ASA/NYSSOBLUE

The one problem I have with your statement about liability in high school games, is that, at least here in NY, is that you as officials are acting as agents of the New York Public High School Athletic Assn., and so are acting (indirectly I will admit) as agents of the school systems. Also in NY, most of the games outside NYC are assigned by, and paid for by an organization called BOCES, which is another organization of local school districts which centralizes technical training, and also acts as the scheduler and overseer of athletic contests in each region. WE have been told we ARE liable, since WE are the representitives of both entities. This is also what gives us the authority over whatever school employees happen to be at a game (security, custodial workers, etc..) Now, it might be different elsewhere, but this is what we are told anyways....

Here is my problem with your statement, Lou. It sounds more like you are an employee which I doubt the State of NY would agree. Does BOCES required registration, dues/fees and provide insurance? If the answer is yes, that's fine. However, I would find a lawyer to establish the extent of liability for which you are responsible. Obviously, the attorney cannot provide guarantees, but can give you a good idea of where an umpire stands in certain circumstances.

[Mountaineer]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

In a HS game, I don't believe the umpire is liable. It is a preventive umpiring issue that works well. The reason you can ask coaches in HS concerning the proper equipment, but not in ASA or whatever, is because the kids are wards of the school during any school-sanctioned activity.

Absolutely the ump is liable in a HS game - it's happened in WV. While walking the field there was a sign leaning against the fence that the umps tossed over the outfield fence. During the game, a gust of wind picked it up and it hit a guy in the stands (15-20' away). He sued and won!

As far as painted helmets go - we toss them in LL. When I went to Southern Region they had us toss them if they were marked with a magic marker! In HS paint is allowed. I've never seen a helmet compromised because of paint or decals but again it goes back to liability. The owner has the option of having the helmet OK by the manufacturer who should provide a letter of such. If the manufacturer won't stand by it - toss it!

[Steve M]

Larry said "Absolutely the ump is liable in a HS game - it's happened in WV. While walking the field there was a sign leaning against the fence that the umps tossed over the outfield fence. During the game, a gust of wind picked it up and it hit a guy in the stands (15-20' away). He sued and won!"

The guy who provided the expert testimoney in this case is a friend.

From my standpoint - If there is some issue that needs to be addressed, have the school take care of it. Then we can play ball.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Mountaineer

Absolutely the ump is liable in a HS game - it's happened in WV. While walking the field there was a sign leaning against the fence that the umps tossed over the outfield fence. During the game, a gust of wind picked it up and it hit a guy in the stands (15-20' away). He sued and won!

Which, of course, has absolutely nothing to do with equipment inspection.

NFHS Rule 3-5-1

Prior to the start of the game at the pregame conference, a head coach shall be responsible for verifying to the plate umpire that all his/her players are legally equipped, and that players and equipment are in compliance with all NFHS rules.
PENALTY: (Art. 1) The game may not begin until the head coach attends the pregame conference and verifies player and equipment compliance.
NOTE: Although umpires have the duty and right to inspect equipment, the responsibility for proper equipment rests with coaches, student-athletes and their parents/guardians.

(Thanks to Pennsylvania for championing this new rule).

Seems pretty clear as to who is liable. But, then, a slick shyster can convince a jury of just about anything in order to win the lottery.

Originally Posted by ASA/NYSSOBLUE

The one problem I have with your statement about liability in high school games, is that, at least here in NY, is that you as officials are acting as agents of the New York Public High School Athletic Assn., and so are acting (indirectly I will admit) as agents of the school systems. Also in NY, most of the games outside NYC are assigned by, and paid for by an organization called BOCES, which is another organization of local school districts which centralizes technical training, and also acts as the scheduler and overseer of athletic contests in each region. WE have been told we ARE liable, since WE are the representitives of both entities. This is also what gives us the authority over whatever school employees happen to be at a game (security, custodial workers, etc..) Now, it might be different elsewhere, but this is what we are told anyways....

As I recall, NY does not use Fed rules. ASA has no such statement of responsiblity in it as I quoted above.