Painting Helmets

[DaveASA/FED]

I was asked this question last night and wanted to make sure I was right. Is any organization disallowing painted helmets? I have heard several discussions about this, the paint may weaken the helmet etc. I know that they should not paint over the warning label and that they need to ensure they don't sand or paint so thick that they make the NOCSAE symbol unclear. But do any of you know of any league that has actually "banned" or discussed banning painted helmets??

[MichaelVA2000]

Dave,

I'm not aware of any leagues or associations that have banned painted batting helmets. There are several helmet manufactures that will void the warrantee on altered equipment.

Michael



[Edited by MichaelVA2000 on Apr 16th, 2004 at 02:37 PM]

[JEL]

I have heard that LL has banned all paint and stickers, I don't do LL but saw a rule posting here, or e-teamz. NFHS, and DIXIE require NOCSAE embossing, AND EXTERIOR WARNING LABEL. Warnings are embossed on some helmets, so light paint may not be a problem. Others have a sticker, which if painted or removed makes it illegal in most leagues. ASA does not specify the warning label must be intact, but does state they are to be NOCSAE approved. If NOCSAE mandates warning label, (not sure if they do) then a helmet missing label would not be legal in ASA either. I usually allow the airbrushed ones, the ones that have names and such, but toss a full paint job.

[DaveASA/FED]

JEL,
Not trying to argue but what do you toss them for? Do you consider that an altered helmet? Are there others that would toss them and if so what for? Again I am not argueing I see both sides of it.

[SamNVa]

LL rule 1.16 has a note to the effect that: "Helmets may not be painted and may not contain tape or decals unless approved in writing by the helmet manufacturer."

I did hear that Andy Konyar (the LL UIC) publishedd a modification to this rule in Fairball magazine that allows a small decal on the front, or a player name on the back as long as the majority of the helmet surface is not affected.

SamC

[Skahtboi]

Originally posted by JEL
I usually allow the airbrushed ones, the ones that have names and such, but toss a full paint job.

Based on what rule?

[Panda Bear]

LL has specifically allowed team/league decal on front & small lettering for name or number on back, reasoning that usual decal adhesive in these amounts won't compromise the plastic helmet's integrity.

Beware the difference between mfg. elaborate paint jobs (becoming more common) and aftermarket artwork. As the issue is possibly weakening safety equipment, I believe the stance all sanctions have taken is that original equipment o.k., aftermarket paint has to be approved by the mfg. for liability reasons.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Panda Bear
LL has specifically allowed team/league decal on front & small lettering for name or number on back, reasoning that usual decal adhesive in these amounts won't compromise the plastic helmet's integrity.

Beware the difference between mfg. elaborate paint jobs (becoming more common) and aftermarket artwork. As the issue is possibly weakening safety equipment, I believe the stance all sanctions have taken is that original equipment o.k., aftermarket paint has to be approved by the mfg. for liability reasons.

The umpire has no clue whether the paint job was approved by the manufacturer or not.

This is a liability / warranty issue, not a legal / illegal equipment issue.

[JEL]

Based on what rule?

ASA helmet rule. NFHS helmet rule. DIXIE helmet rule

If NOCSAE is visible, and warning label is visible, it IMO meets NOCSAE approval, thus is approved for play in NFHS,and ASA.

STANDARD PERFORMANCE SPECIFICATION FOR NEWLY MANUFACTURED BASEBALL/SOFTBALL BATTER'S HELMETS
NOCSAE DOC (ND)022-03m03 adresses the label issue, but does not address painting.

As for paint, I wish all would make a "no paint, no exception rule", but LL is the only one to do it so far. Broken, cracked, dented, and illegally altered are the operative words used by ASA. Paint is not really addessed. If Susie wants her name airbrushed on, and a picture of a ball with fangs, I could, but don't consider that altering.
Those jobs are usaually done with water based paints, and do not affect the helmet polymers. A full paint job, one I have seen was painted entirely w/gold enamel spray, NOCSAE not visible-warning label removed, another sprayed w/ hi-build urethane primer, and a 3 stage automotive pearl clearcoat, paint so thick it covered NOCSAE embossing. I tossed them both. Until there is a ruling as in LL, umpires are gonna have to use some judgement.

[Dakota]

I agree with your actions on your examples, but the key was not the type of paint (maybe you're an expert in paints, but most of us aren't) or in the "full" paint job v. airbrush job, but rather that the NOCSAE stamp and the warning lable were no longer visible.

If the paint job has been thinned / masked around the NOCSAE stamp / warning lable so both are still legible, I am not going to try to determine the paint technology used.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by JEL
As for paint, I wish all would make a "no paint, no exception rule

I disagree. Has the painting of designs on hockey goalie helmets hurt anything? Let the players be creative.

[JEL]

Has the painting of designs on hockey goalie helmets hurt anything? Let the players be creative.

Tom,
To me the question is not has the painting hurt anything. I have never seen a defective helmet injure a player. We don't do a lot of hockey here in south Georgia, so I can't address the goalie masks. I do have a good bit of paint, as well as plastics knowledge, and realize that not all umpires share that. This is precisely the reason I would like to see a "no paint no exception rule". This would remove all qeustion, and liabiliteis issues from the umpires, and let us get on with the business of calling the game. If paint was specifically addressed by rules, the judgement might be easier, but a listing of what can be painted and what not can become over-regulating. If the kids want to be creative, thats fine,(and as I posted before,I allow those if labeling is there) let them be creative with ther bat-bags, jackets and such, and not with safety equipment.

I do think the painted helmet issue could stand some more scrutiny from rules commitees. Again, if safety wasn't involved, this would be a non-issue.

BTW, That gold helmet with non visible labeling? I saw on field opposite of mine last night! Another umpiring crew allowed (or missed) it.

[FUBLUE]

I talked to a guy today who is a little league guy...like UIC or something (not sure official title). He said there was a kid hit in the head last year, and the helmet he was wearing was painted. A lawsuit ensued. According to him the helmet manufacturer said that the painting of the helmet weakened the structure of the helmet, thus it wasn't their fault. Now, I guess, again according to him, that LL has banned all painted or stickered helmets. Only original finish on the helmet is acceptable.

[EugeneCoug]

Our team uses Riddell helmets, the same company that makes football helmets. We had our helmets painted by Riddell using the very same paint they use for football helmets. They also installed the facemasks and supplied the decals. After painting them, Riddell attached the white rectangular warning label on the back. Here is the problem we ran into once last season: We had an umpire declare the helmets to be illegal because they were painted. Discussions (perhaps arguments) ensued. Ten minutes or so later the umpire relented, but forewarned us that they would not be allowed at state, regionals, and nationals (which didn't prove to be the case). The incident did spook us and we were fearful every time the umpires checked at future games that they would disallow the helmets. Fortunately, that did not happen, although there was some severe questioning a couple of times. Nevertheless, we are quite concerned that there is a "myth", if you will, floating around about painted helmets automatically being illegal.

Any thoughts on how we can be more proactive to avoid a similar incident?

[EugeneCoug]

Forgot to mention that. Girls fastpitch.