batting out of order?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by LMan

except that an out for BOO supersedes an out made by the batter-runner. All other outs gained on the play stand.

Not in ASA.

[fan]

Are Fed rules the same thing as NFHS? I can only find in NFHS rules that the batter who should have batted is out (under proper appeal) and the imporper batter's time at bat is negated and she is returned to the dugout/bench area. So, I am assuming the improper batter's at bat whether out or a hit is cancelled and the batter who should have batted is out?

[tcblue13]

Originally Posted by fan

Are Fed rules the same thing as NFHS?

Yes

I can only find in NFHS rules that the batter who should have batted is out (under proper appeal) and the improper batter's time at bat is negated and she is returned to the dugout/bench area. So, I am assuming the improper batter's at bat whether out or a hit is cancelled and the batter who should have batted is out?

Provided a pitch, legal or illegal, has not been delivered to the next batter

[Dakota]

You guys sure have this all twisted around the axle.

Speaking ASA and NFHS (aka Fed; aka high school).

In BOO, for a penalty to be applied, the appeal must be made after the improper batter has completed her turn at bat but before a pitch to the next batter.

If properly appealed, no advance of any runner due to the improper batter becoming a BR will stand. The proper batter is declared out. All outs recorded on other runners will stand. ("other runners" means other than the improper batter)

Speaking ASA: Any out recorded on the improper batter during the play will stand.

Speaking NFHS: Any out recorded on the improper batter during the play does not stand.

[UmpireErnie]

To expound a bit as this is a big difference between ASA and NFHS (High School) rules:

If BOO is appealed at end of Improper Batter’s (IB) time at bat and before next pitch etc. then…

In NFHS: the IB’s out or her existence on base goes “poof”. She is erased. But any other outs that were made on the IB’s turn at bat stand. Any other runners who advanced on the last pitch of the IB’s time at bat are returned to the base occupied at the time of the pitch. The batter who should have batted is out for BOO.

In ASA: all the outs made on the IB’s time at bat stand. If the IB is on base she goes “poof” but she is not an out. She is erased. All other runners return to the base occupied at the time of the last pitch of IB’s turn at bat. Just like NHFS, the batter who should have batted is out for BOO.

Example: R1 on 1B, no out. B3 bats in B2s turn. B3 hits ground ball to F6 who plays to F4 who relays to F3 to complete the double play. Def coach requests time and appeals BOO.

NFHS Ruling: B3 and her out are erased. R1’s out stands. B2 is declared out for BOO. Two outs. B3 bats again.

ASA Ruling: All outs on the time at bat stand, any advance (none in this case) would be nullified. B2 is declared out for BOO. Three outs. B3 is the proper batter in the next inning.

Reading the Little League Softball rule on BOO (6.07) I come away with the interpretation that they mimic ASA although it is worded differently. 6.07(b)2 says nullify any advance or score, but nowhere does it say to nullify any outs. More learned LL colleagues, what say you?

Anyone with answers on other flavors? NCAA?

[tcblue13]

Additionally in Fed all outs and Advances made during the IB not resulting from the IB's actions shall stand

At least that is the way I read it

IB looks at 3k
R1 steals second
Defense appeals
Player who failed to bat out
R1 stays at 2B

IB grounds to F4 with R1 stealing
Steal becomes force F4 throws IBR out
Defense appeals
Player who failed to bat out
Out on IBR at first negated
R1 returns to first

[Dakota]

We're starting to wrap the axle again.

The only difference between NFHS and ASA on BOO is what happens to any out recorded against the improper batter. In ASA, the out stands. In NFHS, the out does not stand.

In both rule sets, the only advances by runners that are brought back are those due to the improper batter becoming a BR, and the play resulting from that. This includes advances by the improper batter herself. She is removed from any base she may have aquired during the play.

In both rule sets, advances by runners unrelated to the improper batter becoming a BR (such as a stolen base) stand.

[tcblue13]

Originally Posted by Dakota

We're starting to wrap the axle again.

At least we are wrapping it in the same direction