Plate Ump hit by pitch on purpose

[grizwald]

I was wondering if anyone saw or heard of this happening (either this incident or another). It was a very dangerous/stupid thing to do.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...605270431/1057

I usually just stick to the basketball forum. But I saw this story and wanted to make sure the softball umps saw this.

[BuggBob]

I was doing a men's fast pitch game. There was a close play at the plate which I called the runner safe. After short argument with he catcher and pitcher (who was also the manager) we resumed play. The very next pitch was high and inside with the catcher dropping his mitt at the last second. Bang right in the mask. I didn't even blink. Told the catcher that was a ball and if that happens again there will be ejections. You never forget something like that, but players do. Years later during new umpire training one of the new trainees was telling us how we should work the game behind the plate or else the pitcher/catcher battery might retaliate like he did in some game in the past. You should have seen the look on his face when I told him yea I remember that game, the runner was safe and you were an A-hole. He never did umpire any games for us.

I did learn something from that encounter. Before I would flinch sometimes, I learned I could trust my equipment and now do not flinch any more. I also learned that men are the worst sports in softball.

Bugg

[tcblue13]

I know that I did not just read that a two inning suspension is an appropriate penalty for this.

So they can't paly the last two innings of game that they are losing 6-0. These players should be removed from the team, their letters should be withheld and they should be prohibited from talking to college recruiters on school property. A disciplinary letter should also be a part of their permanent record. They should get some time off from school.

The coach should be fired.
Criminal charges should be considered against all three people and the PU is probably entitled to rather large legal settlement.

BTW Where is BU when this happens? Why no ejections?

[Justme]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

I know that I did not just read that a two inning suspension is an appropriate penalty for this.

So they can't paly the last two innings of game that they are losing 6-0. These players should be removed from the team, their letters should be withheld and they should be prohibited from talking to college recruiters on school property. A disciplinary letter should also be a part of their permanent record. They should get some time off from school.

The coach should be fired.
Criminal charges should be considered against all three people and the PU is probably entitled to rather large legal settlement.

BTW Where is BU when this happens? Why no ejections?

Criminal charges? Large legal settlement?

Let's really get excited.....

(1) Kick this brutal offender out of school.
(2) Have the player and coach arrested for assault.
(3) Fire the coach.
(4) Never let the player play any state sport.
(5) Sue the player's family, the coach, the AD, the school, the school board, and the state athletic association....did I miss anyone? In the suit not only ask for physical damages but also emotional damages. Since the school has had problems in the past force the school to cancel all sports.
(6) Sue me too because I came up with this stupid list

[BuggBob]

I don't think this is a criminal event. I do think it is a excellent example of poor sportsmanship. Why would you want to ruin a little girls life over one non criminal event? No, the suspension of the players is penalty enough for them. As to the coach, he should have a longer suspension if he approved or ordered this unsportsmanlike act. From my own example posted previously, this is why we wear protective clothing in the first place.

Bugg

[fastpitch]

As a coach I've heard it joked about but never thought it was funny. As a rookie umpire after lots of 10U rec with some catchers that don't necessarily catch when they are trying can relate. I've heard pitching coaches tell pitchers to hit batters to mix things up, but in 10 years of coaching, never asked a girl to hurt another by pitched ball or otherwise. In fact, don't think I ever had a pitcher that would have done it, if asked to - not so sure about some of the catchers though

How would you know it was intentional? What would have to happen before you started making ejections? What if the catcher just lost her stance or was fooled on the pitch?

[Mountaineer]

In 2004, one of my best friends and I were asked to umpire the Jr. League Girls Southern Regionals for Little League. Since we umpire together on a regular basis, we were assigned to different crews. From my field, I could see their scoreboard and noticed it was just sitting on the same inning for a looooooong time. Afterwards we found out why . . .

The catcher from one of the FL teams had asked him to appeal a bunt attempt. Of course in LL, there's no appeal of a judgement call and I don't know if I'd give one on a bunt attempt or not - but he didn't. She looked at the pitcher and said "He won't ask" - the next pitch the girl walked. The next batter, the catcher moved to the outside of the plate and asked the pitcher "Here?" - moved farther out and said "Here?" - moved yet again and said "Here?" and now squatted in the outside batters box!!! (A side note, I had this team in their first game and the pitcher has immaculate control and the catcher has a great glove!) My buddy was VERY exposed in the "slot" to say the least. The first pitch was inside and the batter fouled it off - the catcher didn't move to try to catch it. Next pitch, almost same location - BAM! right in the chest!!! The catcher NEVER moved toward the ball. My buddy stood up, removed his mask and pointed the pitcher and said "You-" then to the catcher "and you - you've got to go!"

Of course the coach yells time and comes storming out of the dugout - the 3b umpire stood in her way and told her he didn't think it would be in her, or her team's best interest to take a step further. There was a big write-up in the paper from that team's home town. The team was eliminated in that game so nothing was done further.

All the other umpires, of course, had a great time with it. We bought a t-shirt for him and had "UGOSTAGO" on the back and we all signed it. He still wears it today!

He knew it was coming, took his lumps - knowing what he was going to do if it indeed happened.

[Dakota]

If the crew did not eject the players, then they have to take some of the blame for this leniency.

I wonder how this would compare with the sanctions against a pitcher ejected for intentionally beaning a batter?

My guess - they would have been more severe.

A 2 inning "suspension" - that is nothing beyond the ejection that should have happened anyway.

[Blu_IN]

If you aren't going to eject someone for that, what will you eject someone for? Geez. How you let them continue to play in that game is beyond my comprehension.

Blu

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by Blu_IN

How you let them continue to play in that game is beyond my comprehension.

Let me preface by saying that I'm the guy in our association known for being quick to eject. (I don't have a problem with it, I think everyone else is too slow.)

That being said, I had this happen to my partner in a baseball game several years back. We both "knew" it happened... the next pitch after some whining, the catcher's glove was up almost in front of umpire's face and then jerked down at the last minute.

When the ball hit the umpire, the pitcher and catcher laughed. After the PU caught his breath, he and I discussed that we "knew" it was intentional but had no way to prove it. I suspect that in the situation noted in this article, there were other things that occured to allow it to be proven, like the pitcher/catcher bragging about it afterwards.

[RANT ON]

I do not disagree with your implication that there are many umpires too slow to eject. At least in my organization, I believe the bar is set to low for what we allow from players and coaches. My belief is that there is a natural tendency to push the envelope and if the bar is low, it will be pushed further. If sportmanship is not enforced, we cannot expect it to be followed.

It irks me when I hear one of our local umps brag about, "I haven't ejected a player in x number of years". Just the fact they are keeping track and bragging suggests they have been trying to avoid ejections when an ejection was probably warranted.

I see it no different than saying, "I haven't called a foul ball in 13 games. Yeah, there are a couple of balls that should have been foul, but I didn't want to slow the game down so I didn't call them." USC is USC. An umpire should deal with it and issue the proper penalties.

Back to this particular incident, if the school found and/or athletic league found after-the-fact evidence that this happened and only suspended for two innings, I think it is a shame. If the parents also learned of this and accepted this two inning suspension as sufficient for their children, I also think that is a shame. I'm not "old skool" like, take the kid to the wood shed for a beatin'... but I am "old skool" like help the kid show some penitence. A face to face apology to the umpire might be a good start.

[RANT OFF]... for now.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Has anyone considered the possibility that the umpire who was hit did not believe it was intentional?

There is no mention of a report from the officials, and it seems the only witness talking was the opposing coach who may have an alternative motive for his rant.

[tcblue13]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Has anyone considered the possibility that the umpire who was hit did not believe it was intentional?

There is no mention of a report from the officials, and it seems the only witness talking was the opposing coach who may have an alternative motive for his rant.

Mike,
Since the suspension was based on an ivestigation by their state association, there must have been more to support it than just a disgruntled coach's claim.
Charlie

Originally Posted by indystar.com

Based on his investigation, Robison concluded that the coach and players had violated the school's athletic handbook

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

Mike,
Since the suspension was based on an ivestigation by their state association, there must have been more to support it than just a disgruntled coach's claim.
Charlie

Maybe so, but I'm referring to those questioning why the participants were not ejected by the umpire.


Could it be that the umpire may be a weak on the authoritive side? Maybe, but none of us were there and don't know that. There was no indication that the "investigation" included what the umpire thought at the time of the incident. For as much as we KNOW, the umpire may not have even submitted a report on the issue.

[tcblue13]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Maybe so, but I'm referring to those questioning why the participants were not ejected by the umpire.


Could it be that the umpire may be a weak on the authoritive side? Maybe, but none of us were there and don't know that. There was no indication that the "investigation" included what the umpire thought at the time of the incident. For as much as we KNOW, the umpire may not have even submitted a report on the issue.

I can't imagine that the state association would investigate and not speak to the umpires but it is possible. My point is that the investigation must have determined some kind of intent by F1, and F2 in order to mete out punishment. BTW I can be weak on the authoritative side also, (just ask my assistant )

Maybe the BU not calling anything gives credence to your point. He should have seen the pitch arrive at home. If nothing looked fishy to him, why call anything?

[BlitzkriegBob]

Originally Posted by tcblue13

Mike,
Since the suspension was based on an ivestigation by their state association, there must have been more to support it than just a disgruntled coach's claim.
Charlie

Actually, the investigation was done by Tim Robison, the AD of the offending team. A little further down in the article you can read...

"Because the umpires did not eject anyone, it's up to the school administrators to decide what action to take," said Searcy, who oversees softball for the IHSAA.

And Mike is probably right (as usual) about the umpire possibly not even submitting a report about the incident. I umpire IHSAA and we are only required to submit an Unsportsmanlike Conduct Report of explanation concerning:

1. Any student-athlete or coach who is ejected from the contest and the reason.

2. Any coach who displays unsportsmanlike conduct requiring the assessment of a penalty.

I'll probably get to see Julie Johnson sometime this summer and I hope I remember to ask her about this incident.