TWP - 2 on same base (ASA)

[IRISHMAFIA]

Remember the subject line here, folks, TWP.

Ernie, what happens when the B becomes a BR and bases are loaded? Each runner is FORCED to advance (1-FORCE OUT). To retire a runner forced, the base to which they are forced is touched by a player in possession of the ball or that runner is tagged with the ball or glove containing the ball. (8.7.C)

The scenario is that of a batted ball forcing all runners to advance to the next base. The umpire cannot call time because that would facilitate R1 advancing to the plate and deny the defense the opportunity to retire that runner. You cannot allow the pitcher to pitch with four runners on three bases.

Steve has supplied the only remedy available in this scenario.

[UmpireErnie]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Remember the subject line here, folks, TWP.

TWP

This Weird Play?
Typical Wednesday Problem?
This Will Perplex?

Sorry I have never heard the acronym TWP used in softball.

[Dakota]

"Third World Play" = a play very unlikely to happen, but which tests the boundaries of the rules in some way.

[UmpireErnie]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The scenario is that of a batted ball forcing all runners to advance to the next base. The umpire cannot call time because that would facilitate R1 advancing to the plate and deny the defense the opportunity to retire that runner. You cannot allow the pitcher to pitch with four runners on three bases.

I guess this is a useless conversation becuase I don't see either of these situations happening (two people on one base while the defense does nothing about it).

But we have two answers if there are two runners on base and the defense does not care to play on them and instead holds the ball in the circle. Assume bases loaded no out and a base hit:

Play 1 - BR ends up on 1B, R3 and R2 both on 3B, and R1 scored. All runners have advanced to or past the base they were forced to. If the ball is being held in the circle and R2 finally dcecided to go back to 2B we ring up an LBR out.

Play 2- BR ends up on 1B, R3 on 2B. R1 scores. R2 never moves from 2B even though forced. The ball is being held in the circle and R2 and R3 are both on the base. Finally R2 decided to go to 3B. Becuase she is forced we ignore the LBR and allow play to continue.

Basically I guess there is just another requirement to the LBR being in effect that is not stated in the rules. The BR must reach 1B and all runners must reach the base to which they were forced. But does this assumed requirement only apply to that runner who is forced? The LBR should be either on or off not on for some runners and off for others, right?

So if we are going to get into fantasticly strange plays that will only happen in low level ball.... What if two Rs end up on 1B with another on 3B. The ball is held in the circle. R1 the runner in 1B who should have went to 2B finally does run. We do nothing becuase this runner is forced so no LBR. Now the runner on 3B seeing her teammate running, decides this is a fine idea and starts running also. Still no play from F1. Still no LBR out???

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by UmpireErnie

... snip ... What if two Rs end up on 1B with another on 3B. The ball is held in the circle. R1 the runner in 1B who should have went to 2B finally does run. We do nothing becuase this runner is forced so no LBR. Now the runner on 3B seeing her teammate running, decides this is a fine idea and starts running also. Still no play from F1. Still no LBR out???

R1 (3rd base) is out on LBR.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by UmpireErnie

... snip ...
Basically I guess there is just another requirement to the LBR being in effect that is not stated in the rules. The BR must reach 1B and all runners must reach the base to which they were forced. But does this assumed requirement only apply to that runner who is forced? The LBR should be either on or off not on for some runners and off for others, right?
...snip...

Which rule sets say "all runners must reach the base to which they were forced" If that is the rule, then those play responses are correct.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

R1 (3rd base) is out on LBR.

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Which rule sets say "all runners must reach the base to which they were forced" If that is the rule, then those play responses are correct.

If the interpretation that allows R2 to advance because she is forced is that F1 is not yet a pitcher under that circumstance, then the LBR cannot be in effect for any runner.

Consider it a reasonable and logical extension of the requirement that BR reach 1B; F1 is simply another defender in possession of the ball until that point. Admittedly, I don't believe any ruleset says that, exactly; but there is no more consistent ruling based on intent and interpretations, IMO.

[noobie]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Or you can call to the 3B coach, "Yo, coach. What's that on your runner's back?" When s/he touches her to look, BANG!, runner assistance.

Laughing my *** off