Bigger Strike Zone

[JefferMC]

As someone who only calls games when no "real" umpire can be had, I have enjoyed browsing this forum, and most of the posts, including in this thread.

I can understand some minor deviations from the "by the book" knees to armpits, edge to edge zone, as long as the strike zone is still pretty much a rectangle near the book definition. And I also understand subjective issues like the bat on the shoulder widening the strike zone.

But when I see umpires putting in writing that, as a matter of course, they have oval or octagonal strike zones because it's too hard to hit pitches in the corners, I get very confused , and not a little frustrated.

Do you think it's not hard to pitch into those same corners? How to you justify unilaterally changing the balance of the game like that?

Yeah, as you can probably guess... my daughter's a pitcher.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by JefferMC

As someone who only calls games when no "real" umpire can be had, I have enjoyed browsing this forum, and most of the posts, including in this thread.

I can understand some minor deviations from the "by the book" knees to armpits, edge to edge zone, as long as the strike zone is still pretty much a rectangle near the book definition. And I also understand subjective issues like the bat on the shoulder widening the strike zone.

But when I see umpires putting in writing that, as a matter of course, they have oval or octagonal strike zones because it's too hard to hit pitches in the corners, I get very confused , and not a little frustrated.

Do you think it's not hard to pitch into those same corners? How to you justify unilaterally changing the balance of the game like that?

Yeah, as you can probably guess... my daughter's a pitcher.

First you say you understand the deviations from the book strike zone and then obviously display that you don't. Before you start off on an eteamz-style, unknowledgable rant, you might want to actually be trained as an umpire.

This isn't something individual umpires just make up and post on discussion boards. The information comes from the ASA Umpire Manual (page 207), clinics and schools at the local, regional and national levels. The umpires are just doing what they are instructed, and to the best of my knowledge, at all levels in all associations!

[JefferMC]

First of all, the umpires that said they were trained to do something weren't (IIRC) the ones that described odd shapes, their deviations from pit/knee/plate weren't the ones I was decrying.

The posters that described the odd shapes implied these were personal preferences, using words like "I like," or "my strike zone" not "I was taught." Mike, your post described a square. Although the oval poster does, unfortunately, say he teaches this.

I do have the NFHS softball rules and umpires manual, but not here with me at the moment. Maybe I'm blocking out an unpleasant memory, but I remember nothing in there like what you're describing.

The fact that it takes two or three different books, most of which are either not available to the general public or at least difficult to obtain, FOR EACH ASSOCIATION, just to have the complete story is a seperate tirade. Is the ASA rulebook online? No. Is the ASA Umpire Manual available online (p 207 or otherwise)? No. Can it be ordered easily? My efforts so far to obtain either have failed.

It's like telling the police that you should ticket anyone who runs a yellow light, but putting in the drivers training book not to run a red light, but proceed with caution through a yellow.

Basically, I guess I've two separate issues, one of which you address:

1) As someone calling a game, I should be trained to do it right. I won't argue that point.

2) As a fan/parent, I have a problem with what amounts to be a secret cabal deciding that the rules will be interpreted in a way different from what is the explicit written, and commonly understood, version of them.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by JefferMC

Is the ASA rulebook online? No. Is the ASA Umpire Manual available online (p 207 or otherwise)? No. Can it be ordered easily? My efforts so far to obtain either have failed.

Not sure why that would be difficult. Assumably your efforts to locate them online lead you to www.asasoftball.com, and then to your local association contacts. Your state UIC should be glad to register you as an ASA umpire, which includes the Umpire Edition of the ASA rulebook (and the umpire manual).

[LMan]

Originally Posted by JefferMC

2) As a fan/parent, I have a problem with what amounts to be a secret cabal deciding that the rules will be interpreted in a way different from what is the explicit written, and commonly understood, version of them.

[daffy duck] *mmwwhhahahahaha* [/daffy duck]

[Mountaineer]

I find it humorous too how different coaches react to the same pitch. One of the colleges near me often asks me to call some intersquad scrimmage games for them. I find my strike zone to be very similar to one described by Mike (maybe a little lower at the top of the zone ). When I call stikes on the outside corner the hitting coach goes ballistic while the pitching coach is ready to buy me dinner!

One thing I've found in umpiring is that strike zones are strike zones and everyone has one and they are all different. Some people can't see the outside of the plate as well as others. There are those that have trouble with balls at the knees. If they are consistant with their zone, most coaches don't complain too much. Other than my patent leather shoes, I get more compliments on my strike zone than anything. I just wish I could figure that darned pi thing out . . .

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by JefferMC

I do have the NFHS softball rules and umpires manual, but not here with me at the moment. Maybe I'm blocking out an unpleasant memory, but I remember nothing in there like what you're describing.

Top of page 21 (Section 2 - Plate Mechanics - Fast Pitch) in the 2004 NFHS Umpires Manual.

[JefferMC]

I've got the 2005-2006 at home. I'll look tonight!

[JefferMC]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Top of page 21 (Section 2 - Plate Mechanics - Fast Pitch) in the 2004 NFHS Umpires Manual.

I looked at this section in the 2006-2007 manual. It described your stance and mechanics of how to watch the ball and call the pitch. However, I did not get from this that you should change the shape of the strike zone because batters may have trouble with parts of it.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by JefferMC

I looked at this section in the 2006-2007 manual. It described your stance and mechanics of how to watch the ball and call the pitch. However, I did not get from this that you should change the shape of the strike zone because batters may have trouble with parts of it.

How do interpret "In calling balls and strikes, it is generally most accepted to bring the down or up onto the strikezone, and widen it out, making sure to give a good corner", then (page 21 in the 2006-2007 manual)? Would that be the stance, the mechanics of watching and calling, or a revision of the textbook defined strike zone?

[JefferMC]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

How do interpret "In calling balls and strikes, it is generally most accepted to bring the [the word "ball" belongs here] down or up onto the strikezone, and widen it out, making sure to give a good corner", then (page 21 in the 2006-2007 manual)? Would that be the stance, the mechanics of watching and calling, or a revision of the textbook defined strike zone?

Let me back up and say that I read that paragraph a total of 6 or 7 times. Initially, I wasn't sure exactly what to make of it. How do you, the umpire, standing behind the plate (and the catcher), "bring the ball" anywhere? My best read of that before this discussion was that this is how you should train your eyes to watch the ball. And it still didn't make sense.

Now I see that it apparently means "make the strikezone slightly shorter from both directions and slightly wider." And, it admonishes "making sure to give a good corner." How many corners does an oval have?

Moving the lines a ball width up, down, left and/or right isn't my primary concern here (as long as its consistantly applied). Hearing an umpire say that he takes corners away from it because it's hard to hit the ball there, that is my concern.

And I also think that if umpires are going to be instructed to apply the stike zone this way that the Rules should be amended to describe the called strike zone.