Foul Tip Problems

[greymule]

As everyone knows, this year ASA removed the phrase "not higher than the batter's head" from its definition of foul tip. In my opinion, this was a proper revision, since some people had long been misled into believing that the height of the batter's head was the determining factor, which it never really was. (Plenty of balls not higher than the batter's head could be caught for outs, and it was possible, especially in FP, for a batter to swing at a pitch over her head and foul tip it.)

But this year for some reason foul tips have become a point of contention in the local SP leagues, with some of our umpires calling me at night after heated arguments to be sure they know the "new" definition of foul tip. They are now calling batters out when F2 catches a ball that spins off the bat—not sharp and direct—but off to the side or visibly spinning upward off the bat, but lower than the batter's head. Of course, the "out" call is correct in these situations—and was last year, too.

Apparently, many SP umpires had long been using the height of the batter's head as the sole criterion for determining whether or not a ball was a foul tip, and so are calling them differently under the "new" rule. Further, in SP, "fly balls" to F2 as distinguished from foul tips must be fairly common, since it isn't even May and this controversy has already erupted several times.

I've been explaining it this way: If the ball is visibly deflected and the catcher catches it—if you didn't need the sound to know the ball hit the bat—it's an out. If the only way you know the ball had nicked the bat is from the sound, it's a foul tip.

Any suggestions on how better to explain it?

[IRISHMAFIA]

The foul tip has been ignored in the SP game for years because it really didn't make a difference as to the runner's status. Now that there is stealing involved, some people have seen how it works and can make a difference.

A foul tip is unintentional. More likely than not, a foul tip is caught by the catcher in the same location the ball would have been caught had the bat not contacted the ball. A batted ball, caught in flight, has always been an out by rule with the exception of a foul tip.

Explanations to someone who doesn't understand the rule:

A line drive to a pitcher or any infielder may not go over the batter's head, but if caught, is an out. Why would it be different with a ball over foul territory. It requires much more reactive skill/ability for a catcher to snag a poorly batted ball not higher than the batter's head in flight than any other fly ball.

If a blooper in front of the plate which does not go above the batter's head can advance the BR to first safely counts as a hit, why wouldn't the equally batted ball in the opposited direction be caught for an out?

When the response is, "but it was foul!", remind them that a ball cannot be foul until it touches the ground or something not in fair territory other than a defender or defender's glove.

[DSUAUmpire]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The foul tip has been ignored in the SP game for years because it really didn't make a difference as to the runner's status. Now that there is stealing involved, some people have seen how it works and can make a difference.

A foul tip is unintentional. More likely than not, a foul tip is caught by the catcher in the same location the ball would have been caught had the bat not contacted the ball. A batted ball, caught in flight, has always been an out by rule with the exception of a foul tip.

Explanations to someone who doesn't understand the rule:

A line drive to a pitcher or any infielder may not go over the batter's head, but if caught, is an out. Why would it be different with a ball over foul territory. It requires much more reactive skill/ability for a catcher to snag a poorly batted ball not higher than the batter's head in flight than any other fly ball.

If a blooper in front of the plate which does not go above the batter's head can advance the BR to first safely counts as a hit, why wouldn't the equally batted ball in the opposited direction be caught for an out?

When the response is, "but it was foul!", remind them that a ball cannot be foul until it touches the ground or something not in fair territory other than a defender or defender's glove.

Sorry Mike, I don't buy your explaination or misunderstand. What in your opinion would be a foul tip. A foul tip is always a strike and remins live in SP with stealing. A line drive directly back to the pitcher which is caught is an out, directly back to the catcher which is caught would be the defition of a foul tip. (by rule) The catcher is a defender and a ball hitting him without first touching his glove is foul.

[IRISHMAFIA]

It was a response to the previous post by greymule. IOW, it referred to his reference of the "higher than the batter's head" myth.

Guess I should have cited his post.