Partner problems

[C'monBlue]

Hello all,

I was working the plate tonight and in the first inning a batter checked his swing and, to my mind, clearly held up. The catcher points to my partner in the B position who promptly rings up the strike. (Yes, we did talk about this in the pre-game.) I ended up going to him anyway after the damage was done, but I'm not sure that was the right thing to do. What's the best way to handle this situation?

[Edited by C'monBlue on Feb 21st, 2006 at 02:50 AM]

[cowbyfan1]

I would have grabbed him inbetween innings and reminded him to wait till you actually appeal to him.

[Bob Lyle]

I'd wait until after the game to talk to my partner. No sense making an issue of it during the game and attracting unwanted attention to yourself.

After all, it's more strikes, you'll go home earlier, and any crap from the coach will be directed at your partner. On the off-chance that the offensive coach comes to you to complain, send him out to your partner. Once your partner steals the call, it's his call; let him live or die by it. You don't own it anymore.

[AAUA96]

Originally posted by Bob Lyle
On the off-chance that the offensive coach comes to you to complain, send him out to your partner. Once your partner steals the call, it's his call; let him live or die by it. You don't own it anymore.

If the offensive coach comes out to complain, warn him, then toss him. Questioning in this situation is questioning balls and strikes.

9.02
(a) Players leaving their position in the field or on base, or managers or coaches leaving the bench or coaches box, to argue on BALLS AND STRIKES will not be permitted. They should be warned if they start for the plate to protest the call. If they continue, they will be ejected from the game.
(c) ... On a half swing, if the manager comes out to argue with first or third base umpire and if after being warned he persists in arguing, he can be ejected as he is now arguing over a called ball or strike.

[ggk]

you quoted 9.02 from OBR is there a comparable FED rule re: balls and strikes?

[briancurtin]

Originally posted by AAUA96

If the offensive coach comes out to complain, warn him, then toss him. Questioning in this situation is questioning balls and strikes.

9.02
(a) Players leaving their position in the field or on base, or managers or coaches leaving the bench or coaches box, to argue on BALLS AND STRIKES will not be permitted. They should be warned if they start for the plate to protest the call. If they continue, they will be ejected from the game.
(c) ... On a half swing, if the manager comes out to argue with first or third base umpire and if after being warned he persists in arguing, he can be ejected as he is now arguing over a called ball or strike.

i think bob was talking more along the lines of a coach coming out to find out why the BU said "yes he did" when he wasnt even asked, rather than whether or not the call was legitimately a strike.

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by PWL

I would have notified the defensive coach of this.

As an umpire, this is the WORST thing to do and I advise STRONGLY against it. Now for the rest of the game you have just "hung your partner out to dry", meaning his/her credibility will be challenged on every close call etc.

Do not tell Coaches anything as in the long run you will be burned.

There's a REASON in addition to a PRE-GAME we have a POST Game and these kinds of things should be left for after the game away from everybody.

In addition since you just alerted the defensive coach the game can turn into chaos because when you do need your partners help he will not be there and say "Hey skip talk to the PU it's not my call"

Bottom line here, do not go looking for RULES about protocol until AFTER the game. All that happend here is that the BU made a pre-mature call that we all have made at one time or another.

The time to get your point across is in the
the POST Game meeting and not DURING the game. Also, do not tell COACHES anything as IMO that would cause me not to work with someone more so than a pre-mature call.

Pete Booth

[BigUmp56]

You're missing the point of Pete's response. It doesn't matter who asked for the appeal. The appeal was granted as soon as the BU signaled the strike. You can't say the appeal never happened when your partner allowed it. Right, wrong, or indifferent you need to live with that call and discuss it after the game. I don't care if it's the BU's first time on the field. You don't throw your partner under the bus.


Tim.

[UMP25]

Originally posted by PWL
How can you have an appeal if the PU didn't ask for one.

Quite easily. There IS a time when the base umpire should make an immediate decision on a half-swing when his partner hasn't asked him for help. I'll leave it up to the audience here to see if they know when this is.

[PeteBooth]

I believe I wrote more than one sentence.

I do not care how many sentences you wrote. The below is what I am opposed to.

I would have notified the defensive coach of this.

Why in the world would you notify the defensive coach?

As I mentioned, all that happened here is that the BU chimed in before the PU asked him to. After the game is when you have a "chat" with the BU

Partners talk between innings sometimes, especially if they are new. I wouldn't consider this a hanging anybody out to dry situation.

Once you notified the defensive Coach regardless of what you think you have "hung your partner out to dry". As mentioned, do not tell coaches anything.

No matter what the situation, we have to be a "team" in a 2 person crew. Once we start disagreeing between ourselves during the game or having "chats" with the coaches about our partners is when the game can turn "ugly" in a heartbeat.

We do not have to like each other but MUST respect one another and when something happens that we do not like, the time for airing our viewpoints is for AFTER the game not DURING it.

Also, one should Never "squeal" on our partners to a coach. That is called "backstabbing" and word will get around.

The aforementioned is harmless and easily corrected during a Post game meeting. As somebody once said "Do not sweat the small stuff"

Pete Booth

[PeteBooth]

Originally posted by C'monBlue [/i]

The catcher points to my partner in the B position who promptly rings up the strike. (Yes, we did talk about this in the pre-game.) I ended up going to him anyway after the damage was done, but I'm not sure that was the right thing to do. What's the best way to handle this situation?

As I mentioned in an earlier response the best way to handle the situation is AFTER the game. Also, once the BU signalled a strike it's a strike, no need to go to him again. Leave it alone until afterwards.

Pete Booth

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by PWL

If it is the third strike

That's one of the criteria. There are more.

[UMP25]

Originally posted by PWL

If it is the third strike

You're halfway there.

[midtnblu]

uncaught 3rd strike

[BigUmp56]

Originally posted by PWL

So let me get this straight. You are saying they can appeal to any umpire on a check swing now.

No, what I'm saying is that as soon as the BU made a signal it became a proper appeal. It doesn't matter that it was the catcher who pointed to him for the appeal. He blew it and allowed the appeal. To overturn him at this point is throwing him under the bus.

Originally posted by PWL
How is that throwing someone under the bus telling the coach that this is your call, not the BU and you are the one that does the asking. I don't see your point whatsoever.

Answered.

Originally posted by PWL
They made the wrong appeal. They shouldn't get call. Would you allow this to happen all game. I don't understand you.

The point is they did get the call when the BU made it. I would hope that I wouldn't be working with a partner that would do this all game. I might give him the stink eye for a second and hope he picks up on it, but I'm going to wait until our post game to discuss it with him.

Originally posted by PWL
All appeals must be made in a proper fashion, if not they are denied. The check swing is the same thing.

I agree with you. However in this situation the appeal wasn't denied by the BU. If you deny it after he made the call you're overturning him and throwing him under the bus.


Tim.