The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 27, 2006, 08:43am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 106
Batted Ball striking runner

Coach here, had a call go against us last night that I thought was a rule mis-interp.

R1 on second R2 on first batted ball strikes R2 as she is heading for second. BU calls R2 out and places batter at first and places R1 at third. I asked why R1 was put on third because she had not reached third at the time of interference and should be returned to second. He agreed that R1 had not reached third at the time of interference but because a force situation existed at the time of the pitch the runner on second was forced to run to third. So he placed her on third.

Here is the text of the rule 8-1E3:

.....if it (the ball) passes an infielder and another infielder has an opportunity to make an out, the runner (struck by the batted ball) is out and the batter-runner is entitled to first base without liability to be put out. Any runner not forced by the batter-runner must return to the base reached prior to the interference. (parenthesis mine)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I interpret the above rule as saying we have to put the batter on first, and in so doing that forces us to move other runners forward if necessary to put the batter on first. In this sitch, however, with R1 being called out, R2 was not forced to be given third and should have been returned to second.

Blue does a lot of our local tournaments/games and I promised him an email whichever way you guys and gals interpret this sitch.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 27, 2006, 09:01am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Tustin, Michigan
Posts: 403
Sorry to say, but it sounds like the blue got it wrong. The ball is dead immediately, the runner hit by the ball is out, and the batter-runner gets first base. All other runners must return to the base occupied at TOP.

The only "force" situation here would be if say R1 was heading toward 3rd, R2 heading to second...If R1 is hit by the batted ball, the B/R gets 1st, thus "forcing" R2 to go to second. You end up with the same situation, just with different players on different bases and one added out.
__________________
"When I umpire I may not always be right, but I am always final!"

Last edited by blueump; Thu Apr 27, 2006 at 09:06am.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 27, 2006, 09:27am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,425
Umpire wrong, both posters correct.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 27, 2006, 10:32am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Little Elm, TX (NW Dallas)
Posts: 4,047
It should be noted that even if R1 attained 3rd base before the interference (perhaps she was stealing, or just very fast), she STILL goes back to 2nd.
__________________
"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 27, 2006, 10:38am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrowder
It should be noted that even if R1 attained 3rd base before the interference (perhaps she was stealing, or just very fast), she STILL goes back to 2nd.
"Any runner not forced by the batter-runner must return to the base reached prior to the interference." or "last base touched at the time of the interference" (NFHS).
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 27, 2006, 12:42pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Woodstock, GA; Atlanta area
Posts: 2,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrowder
It should be noted that even if R1 attained 3rd base before the interference (perhaps she was stealing, or just very fast), she STILL goes back to 2nd.
Still hung up on the baseball and Little League interpretations, Mike. Not so in softball; last base touched prior to the interference; TOP not a factor in softball awards, other than a pitched ball blocked or leaving the field of play.
__________________
Steve
ASA/ISF/NCAA/NFHS/PGF
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 27, 2006, 01:29pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Ypsilanti, Michigan
Posts: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve
Still hung up on the baseball and Little League interpretations, Mike. Not so in softball; last base touched prior to the interference; TOP not a factor in softball awards, other than a pitched ball blocked or leaving the field of play.
So basically if R1 was somehow superfast and had attained 3rd "BEFORE" the ball hit R2 she would be allowed to stay at 3rd? NFHA rules of course!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 27, 2006, 01:38pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Little Elm, TX (NW Dallas)
Posts: 4,047
Sorry - thought I was on the other board. I hate people that do that, and I hate it twice as much when I do it. My bad - sorry guys.
__________________
"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 27, 2006, 05:12pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Woodstock, GA; Atlanta area
Posts: 2,822
Quote:
Originally Posted by msrock1954
So basically if R1 was somehow superfast and had attained 3rd "BEFORE" the ball hit R2 she would be allowed to stay at 3rd? NFHA rules of course!
ASA, NFHS, and NCAA, all would allow 3rd in that case.
__________________
Steve
ASA/ISF/NCAA/NFHS/PGF
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 27, 2006, 07:36pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve
ASA, NFHS, and NCAA, all would allow 3rd in that case.
also in PONY-sanctioned games, regardless of the type of horse.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu Apr 27, 2006, 08:56pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne
also in PONY-sanctioned games, regardless of the type of horse.
Too Funny
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Fri Apr 28, 2006, 08:59am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Tustin, Michigan
Posts: 403
Even on a steal...I find it hard to believe that a runner could reach 3rd base (not leaving before the pitch leaves the pitcher's hand) before the batted ball hits a runner. She must be VERY VERY VERY fast or the ball was hit soooooooooo slowly that the runner hit by it would be called out not only for being hit, but also for being stupid!
__________________
"When I umpire I may not always be right, but I am always final!"
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Fri Apr 28, 2006, 09:26am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 106
How about a suicide squeeze with R1 breaking from third with pitch. The bunt has a violent spin and/or its a windy day and hits the now batter-runner who is running in fair territory. If R1 crosses plate before ball hits batter-runner, I think we have a dead ball out and a run scored.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Runner hit by batted ball... ElPanadero Baseball 5 Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:54am
Runner hit by batted ball chuck chopper Baseball 5 Thu Jun 16, 2005 05:11pm
Runner hit by batted ball... Alameda Softball 4 Wed Apr 13, 2005 04:13pm
Runner hit by batted ball, scoring runner, batter wfwbb Baseball 12 Sat Jul 17, 2004 03:12pm
Runner Hit By Batted Ball DFM7 Baseball 16 Wed Jun 30, 2004 01:37pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:14pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1