Assistant Coaches

[Chess Ref]

Pu yesterday for the 3rd/4th place game of a pretty big local tourney. The pitchers are decent and the teams are decent. I was real happy with my strike zone. I'm hustling my calls are good and solid. Then in about the 6th inninng the following occurs. R1 on 3B, batter hits a squibbler, F4 overthrows F3 and goes for 2b. I, am about 5-7 feet up the 3b line watching R1. R1 pulls up at 3B so I stay put. Then we have a play at 2B. Runner called out, Assistant Coach comes out to partner. Asks me for help. i saw what he saw.
Then i start hearing the chirping the next half inning about how i was too lazy to get in better position, too lazy to move from behind the plate.

So do you just turn your hearing aids down or do I address their comments ? Also reading through the rulebook and it really never addresses ***'T coaches. Read some old threads but is their a rule justification for not allowing Asst Coaches fron acting the fool ?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

Pu yesterday for the 3rd/4th place game of a pretty big local tourney. The pitchers are decent and the teams are decent. I was real happy with my strike zone. I'm hustling my calls are good and solid. Then in about the 6th inninng the following occurs. R1 on 3B, batter hits a squibbler, F4 overthrows F3 and goes for 2b. I, am about 5-7 feet up the 3b line watching R1. R1 pulls up at 3B so I stay put. Then we have a play at 2B. Runner called out, Assistant Coach comes out to partner. Asks me for help. i saw what he saw.
Then i start hearing the chirping the next half inning about how i was too lazy to get in better position, too lazy to move from behind the plate.

So do you just turn your hearing aids down or do I address their comments ? Also reading through the rulebook and it really never addresses ***'T coaches. Read some old threads but is their a rule justification for not allowing Asst Coaches fron acting the fool ?

Speaking ASA

A coach is a coach is a coach. No adjective changes their status.

You may want to talk to the manager/head coach between innings and tell him/her that the play is over, it isn't going to change and the game is moving on. A good coach will get the idea and handle the situation.

[Chess Ref]

Yea while reading through the NFHS book it also seems that way. About the only time I could find Head coach mentioned was at the pre-game meeting....

I was hoping Asst. Coaches were treated like they are in BB. Alas it doesn't seem that way.

Maybe the game management aspect will click for me in softball pretty soon. It improved alot at the end of my 2nd BB season. I just struggle with what is appropriate and what is not appropriate. Or more accurately I struggle with the shades of grey in softball.

[UmpireErnie]

“Then i start hearing the chirping the next half inning about how i was too lazy to get in better position, too lazy to move from behind the plate.”

Is this chirping from the team members (players/coaches/whoever is in the team area) or is it from the fans? Obviously if it is from the fans you are going to ignore it completely.

If it is from team members, IMO you have to use some personal judgment and restraint. You have to think about the level of game you are doing. Personally, in a competitive youth game or a high school game, I might simply fail to hear a coach get in a “chirp” or two. Often they get it out of their system and life goes on. I didn’t come to the ballpark to get the coach’s approval so not having it does not bother me. I think it is important to remember that there is no need for us to try to convince a coach that we are right.

On the other hand, I do go to the ball park to have a good time and give the players my best game. If a coach’s chirping gets annoying enough to me that these goals are threatened, I am going to go have a quiet non threatening chat with the coach. If that does not work, we have other remedies. Hopefully I don’t have to but it’s really up to the coach at that point, now isn’t it?

[umpharp]

If the asst coach was chirping over and over about the same thing, I would call time and go and talk to the head coach. I would tell him/her that you have heard enough from his asst and that it is time to move on with the game. This puts the responsibility back on the head coach as the head coach can not say that he didn't hear his asst or know what was going on. A head coach should be the only person we are discussing calls with, getting subs from, arguing with, etc.
If the head coach does nothing and/or the asst coach continues to chirp, then you could A) give him a stern warning yourself or more likely B) Toss him. You already told the head coach that you had heard enough. It is one thing for a head coach to question calls or argue, we don't need it from the asst.
As already posted, a good coach will have control over his players and asst's.
As for parents, let them chirp all they want as long as they don't say anything vulgar. I often laugh at the things I hear parents say. I expect more from coaches.

[bluezebra]

Assistant coaches belong in the dugout, or in the coach's box. I talked ONLY to head coaches, PERIOD.

Bob

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by bluezebra

Assistant coaches belong in the dugout, or in the coach's box. I talked ONLY to head coaches, PERIOD.

Bob

For the most part, I agree.

Bob - Where have you been, guy? Or have I just been not noticing?

[whiskers_ump]

Originally Posted by bluezebra

Assistant coaches belong in the dugout, or in the coach's box. I talked ONLY to head coaches, PERIOD.

Bob

My thoughts exactly. Where have and how have you been Bob?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Well, whether you all like it or not, the job of a coach, ANY COACH is to work for the team and in some cases, that means discussing a play or call with the umpire.

Aside from the given scenario, the general comments concerning the demand to talk ONLY to the head coach are unrealistic and, to a point, a bit arrogant.

[SC Ump]

For HS in SC, we are instructed to only discuss the calls with the head coaches. They are also told this in the preseason meeting.

In other ball, I will discuss the call with the one coach that wishes to. Assistant coaches are usually easier to bluff anyway.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SC Ump

For HS in SC, we are instructed to only discuss the calls with the head coaches. They are also told this in the preseason meeting.

So, if the HC is coaching 3rd and there is an issue of a dropped ball or pulled foot at 1st, the conversating is with the guy 80-90 feet away? That makes about as much sense as the PU being asked to make a call of a tag play to the outfield side of 2B on a straight steal.

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

... there is an issue of a dropped ball or pulled foot at 1st....

I did not mean it to sound quite as strict as it apparently did. We will respond to an assistant coach's request for help, "normal" coaching duty comment or a greeting of "nice day for a game." We don't completely ignore them.

If they come out with discussions about specific rule interpretations or "where was that pitch" type discussions, we don't entertain them.

[Chess Ref]

My inital post was borne of frustration and irritation. i was hoping there was more of a rules justification for dealing with the particulary nasty and personal comments. I maybe a little idealistic here but I expect the coaches to act like adults. if they won't thats fine, but I am looking for ways of dealing with them that are rules based.

In the back of the rule book is the coaches Code of Ethnics. It does say that public criticism of officials is UNETHICAL. Does this Code carry any weight or is just filler paper and to show me what life would be like in a perfect world.

I am working on my game management skills which for me is going okay. game management skills for me are not and will not become the ability to take as much abuse as possible and protecting these coaches from themselves. Hence i was hoping for a more rules based route to go with this.

in basketball there are more definitive rules around the behavior of coaches and there doesn't seem to be that in softball. Just

[CecilOne]

wrt "Then i start hearing the chirping the next half inning about how i was too lazy to get in better position, too lazy to move from behind the plate.", I think that's a recording because I've heard it when working alone and being past the PP making a call at 2nd.
As far as assistant coaches go, no problem in discussing things with them, but they are also the lowest priority for keeping people in the game.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Well, whether you all like it or not, the job of a coach, ANY COACH is to work for the team and in some cases, that means discussing a play or call with the umpire.

Aside from the given scenario, the general comments concerning the demand to talk ONLY to the head coach are unrealistic and, to a point, a bit arrogant.

I have no problem "discussing a play" with an assistant coach. But as far as chirping goes, they have a LOT less leeway than a manager might. In baseball, assistants are their to assist the manager and nothing else... but tradition in softball has not gone there.