Assistant Coaches

[IRISHMAFIA]

Well, whether you all like it or not, the job of a coach, ANY COACH is to work for the team and in some cases, that means discussing a play or call with the umpire.

Aside from the given scenario, the general comments concerning the demand to talk ONLY to the head coach are unrealistic and, to a point, a bit arrogant.

[SC Ump]

For HS in SC, we are instructed to only discuss the calls with the head coaches. They are also told this in the preseason meeting.

In other ball, I will discuss the call with the one coach that wishes to. Assistant coaches are usually easier to bluff anyway.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SC Ump

For HS in SC, we are instructed to only discuss the calls with the head coaches. They are also told this in the preseason meeting.

So, if the HC is coaching 3rd and there is an issue of a dropped ball or pulled foot at 1st, the conversating is with the guy 80-90 feet away? That makes about as much sense as the PU being asked to make a call of a tag play to the outfield side of 2B on a straight steal.

[SC Ump]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

... there is an issue of a dropped ball or pulled foot at 1st....

I did not mean it to sound quite as strict as it apparently did. We will respond to an assistant coach's request for help, "normal" coaching duty comment or a greeting of "nice day for a game." We don't completely ignore them.

If they come out with discussions about specific rule interpretations or "where was that pitch" type discussions, we don't entertain them.

[Chess Ref]

My inital post was borne of frustration and irritation. i was hoping there was more of a rules justification for dealing with the particulary nasty and personal comments. I maybe a little idealistic here but I expect the coaches to act like adults. if they won't thats fine, but I am looking for ways of dealing with them that are rules based.

In the back of the rule book is the coaches Code of Ethnics. It does say that public criticism of officials is UNETHICAL. Does this Code carry any weight or is just filler paper and to show me what life would be like in a perfect world.

I am working on my game management skills which for me is going okay. game management skills for me are not and will not become the ability to take as much abuse as possible and protecting these coaches from themselves. Hence i was hoping for a more rules based route to go with this.

in basketball there are more definitive rules around the behavior of coaches and there doesn't seem to be that in softball. Just

[CecilOne]

wrt "Then i start hearing the chirping the next half inning about how i was too lazy to get in better position, too lazy to move from behind the plate.", I think that's a recording because I've heard it when working alone and being past the PP making a call at 2nd.
As far as assistant coaches go, no problem in discussing things with them, but they are also the lowest priority for keeping people in the game.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

Game management skills for me are not and will not become the ability to take as much abuse as possible and protecting these coaches from themselves.

And it shouldn't be. Game management skills includes knowing what "abuse" to completely ignore, and what needs to be addressed, and then how to address it. It's knowing where the lines should be drawn and what to do when lines are crossed. And it varies from area to area, from level to level, and even from umpire to umpire.

I think those umpires that dump early and often are at equal level to those umpires that never eject anyone. There is something to be said for "keeping the coach in the game", but not at the expense of one's integrity or the good of the game. The best game management skills lie somewhere in the middle.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

Hence i was hoping for a more rules based route to go with this.

Speaking ASA.

4-7-C-3

Base coaches may not use language that will reflect negatively umpon players, umpires, or spectators.

EFFECT: Disqualification or ejection from the game after a warning.

4-8-B

Any arguing on the judgment of balls and strikes will constitute a team warning. Any repeat offense shall result in the ejection of that team member

Speaking NFHS:

3-6-13

Unstorting acts shall not be committed, including, but not limited to
a. use of words or actions to incite or try to incite spectators to demonstrate
b. use of profanity, intimidation and/or deceitful tactics, or baiting or taunting;
c. behavior in any manner not in accordance with the spirit of fair play.

3-6-15

Arguing ball and strike calls or other umpire judgment calls is prohibited.

PENALTY (Arts. 11-16) The umpire shall eject the offender from the game, unless the offense is judged to be of a minor nature. If minor, the umpire may warn the offender and eject if the offense is repeated. For coaches who violate, the umpire may restrict the offender to bench/dugout for the remainder of the game, or eject the offender.

Now, you don't want to use a pile driver to crack walnuts, either. You don't want to have "rabbit ears", but you don't have to put up with abuse, either.

My first action if the "chirping" starts to become continuous is to ask the coach if he is aware that arguing judgment calls is a violation of the rules. It gets the point across (usually) without issuing any kind of ultimatum. I don't issue ultimatums. Even with an official team warning, I merely communicate that this is their official team warning. No threats; the coach should know what "official warning" means.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Well, whether you all like it or not, the job of a coach, ANY COACH is to work for the team and in some cases, that means discussing a play or call with the umpire.

Aside from the given scenario, the general comments concerning the demand to talk ONLY to the head coach are unrealistic and, to a point, a bit arrogant.

I have no problem "discussing a play" with an assistant coach. But as far as chirping goes, they have a LOT less leeway than a manager might. In baseball, assistants are their to assist the manager and nothing else... but tradition in softball has not gone there.