The state of the game.

[Skahtboi]

I know that I shouldn't let this bother me, but somehow, it does. Last night I was working a 4A HS game between a team that is undefeated in district play, and a team that is in its first year of play. The undefeated team has lots of depth, including three very capable pitchers, but the coach of this team decided to pitch her ace. I thought that this was a little overkill, because team B couldn't keep pace with her number three pitcher. But, that isn't my call. I was the BU, and hadn't been in the field with either of these teams this season. Anyway, right off the bat, I notice that Team A's pitcher is lifting the pivot and replanting, not the typical crow hop, but more of a step to gain advantage. Of course I call "illegal," and the coach of team A comes out and asks what her pitcher did. I told her. The game goes on. About five pitches later, I again see the illegal action, and call it. To make a long story short, this happened a few more times, me calling it every time.

After the game, I was talking to the husband of the coach of Team A, who I have known for some time, and asked him when Team A's pitcher had developed this "bad habit." He told me that his wife was coaching all of her pitchers to do this, to see what they could get away with, and that I was the only one who had called so far this season. He also told me that his wife had gotten the idea from her college days, where her coach taught the pitchers to gain an advantage until they were called for it, and the runners to leave early until they were called for it. To me, it is sad to know that there are "professionals," even folks who I otherwise hold in high esteem, who are coaching players to cheat.

Thanks for letting me vent.

[Dakota]

Is it cheating if the umpire doesn't call it?

[fastpitch]

Went to a national coaching clinic where the D1 NCAA coaches were talking about leadoffs on steals - consensus was "If you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin"

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by fastpitch

Went to a national coaching clinic where the D1 NCAA coaches were talking about leadoffs on steals - consensus was "If you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin"

And you wonder why some youth of this country have a feeling of entitlement. The "if it's not nailed down, it must belong to me" attitude is not a very good report on the parenting skills of our society.

[fastpitch]

Knowing the rules and taking advantage in a game is a far cry from teaching cheating. In the first post I think the coach gains nothing but an opportunity to have her pitcher lose her focus. Getting girls to be aggressive baserunners is a challenge with most leaving late. Tue night our catcher told me she had made a somewhat colorful remark after a girl slid into her and knocked the ball out at the plate. In no uncetain terms I told her she'd better never do that again and in the team meeting reiterated that no one on the team will ever use foul language or direct disparaging remarks to the other team or the umpires. The other team's 3B had been doing that toward our dugout toward the latter part of the game. As a coach, that is just an opportunity for me to bring it to the attention of the BU and hopefully gain an advantage. I'd be interested to hear where you guys draw the line on disqualification for foul language.

[JFA67]

Originally Posted by fastpitch

. I'd be interested to hear where you guys draw the line on disqualification for foul language.

I don't tolerate the F-word at all esp loud enough for the crowd to notice.
I will quietly warn the offender and her coach for other foul language once. It is usually enough. Some players don't listen and get DQd. Other coaches have benched players themselves.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by fastpitch

Knowing the rules and taking advantage in a game is a far cry from teaching cheating. In the first post I think the coach gains nothing but an opportunity to have her pitcher lose her focus. Getting girls to be aggressive baserunners is a challenge with most leaving late. Tue night our catcher told me she had made a somewhat colorful remark after a girl slid into her and knocked the ball out at the plate. In no uncertain terms I told her she'd better never do that again and in the team meeting reiterated that no one on the team will ever use foul language or direct disparaging remarks to the other team or the umpires. The other team's 3B had been doing that toward our dugout toward the latter part of the game. As a coach, that is just an opportunity for me to bring it to the attention of the BU and hopefully gain an advantage. I'd be interested to hear where you guys draw the line on disqualification for foul language.

No matter what the age, if the player uses foul language, it is an automatic ejection if any of the following are true:
(a) She is loud enough to be heard by the fans, or
(b) She accompanies her foul language with angry gestures (i.e. bat slamming, angry stares, throwing of equipment, stomping, etc.), or
(c) She is addressing another individual (i.e. name calling, taunting, etc.), or
(d) She uses an outrageously inflammatory or inappropriate word/phrase beyond what many would consider a "normal" expletive. (i.e. normal = sh*t!, d*mn!, cr*p!)

I tend to give more slack to older players.

I also call baseball games, if I had ejected every player who, after making an error or striking out, said, "Sh*t!" or "Son-of-a-b*tch", I'd have a thousand ejection notches on my belt.

The bottom line is: I eject players for inappropriate use of foul language. What is inappropriate? I know it when I see and hear it.

I don't recall this ever being a problem in any game I've ever called, nor, have I ever ejected a player or coach for the use of foul language. Have I ever heard foul language on the field? Hell, yes!

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[SC Ump]

How was it that we had pick-up games in vacant lots, obviously with no officials, and got along okay. Sure that's where "ties go to the runner" was okay, but overall, it worked.

I think the presents of officials seem to make people think they are no longer responsible for their own actions and for staying inside the rules. It is the official's responsibility to make them stay there.

I don't even have to explain "the runner left early" anymore. I just call "no pitch", point at the base and give the out signal. They know they are pushing it.

I think I saw on here someone post that a coach said, "You're just looking for stuff." The poster replied, "Yep, that's my job."

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And you wonder why some youth of this country have a feeling of entitlement. The "if it's not nailed down, it must belong to me" attitude is not a very good report on the parenting skills of our society.

Skills and even more to the point, effort and example.

[tcannizzo]

Hey, if every player and every coach followed every rule, every time, they wouldn't need us.

[Al]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And you wonder why some youth of this country have a feeling of entitlement. The "if it's not nailed down, it must belong to me" attitude is not a very good report on the parenting skills of our society.

Hey Mike,

One time while umping by myself I had a lousy position and had to make a call. I was not 100% sure that a tag was made. I was however able to get a good enough look where it looked like the glove made slight contact so I called the runner out. I had very little noise on it so most observers must have agreed the tag was made. I knew the fielder and after the game I asked her if she touched the runner and she said yes. She went on to say her coach told all of his players if an umpire ever asks you if you made a tag tell him/her yes even if you missed the tag. So much for honesty. I told her I would rather tell the truth even if it meant losing the game, and she agreed. Any coach that would tell his team to lie is a disgrace and IMO should not even be allowed to coach young players. The kids are there to learn and to have fun; not to learn how to cheat in order to give them a better chance to win. As a parent, if my kid told me her coach said that I would go to that coach and say I don't appreciate you telling my kid, or any other kid to lie.

Pretty bad when adults would make liars out of kids so HIS team can win! ..Al

[Chess Ref]

It's cheating even if I don't call it. I was under the belief that high school sports was about character development, learning to work as a team, and all the other beautiful cliches that are out there. I am a cynic by nature or enviroment-the debate rages on- but my personal observations are the adults around high school sports are pretty nasty. Alot of the adults have no self-control, lack the ability to realistically see what is going on , just mouth the mantras about sportsmanship and cannot walk the talk about being role models.

I love walking out on the diamond before the game. "Hey blue how's it going?". "Nice weather today blue " "Can I get you a water blue ?" I am everybodys friend. One pitch doesn't go their way and these people turn into feral cats with all the social skills of a career criminal.

So telling a high school kid who is looking for guidance and help in developing life skills it's okay to cheat, lie and behave badly towards others is not a good thing.

Rant and Rave off.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by fastpitch

Went to a national coaching clinic where the D1 NCAA coaches were talking about leadoffs on steals - consensus was "If you ain't cheatin, you ain't tryin"

From the 2006 NCAA Softball Rules:

Coaches are expected to be leaders and must comply with the following
principles and ethics:

e. Comply wholeheartedly with the spirit and intent of the rules. The
deliberate teaching of players to violate the rules is indefensible.

Seems that says it all!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

From the 2006 NCAA Softball Rules:

Coaches are expected to be leaders and must comply with the following
principles and ethics:

e. Comply wholeheartedly with the spirit and intent of the rules. The
deliberate teaching of players to violate the rules is indefensible.

Seems that says it all!

Yeah, but now you're assuming the NCAA really means it and the coaches actually pays attention to it.

What's the penalty if a coach is shown to have taught a player to cheat?

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Yeah, but now you're assuming the NCAA really means it and the coaches actually pays attention to it.

What's the penalty if a coach is shown to have taught a player to cheat?

I think that you knew the answer to that before you even formulated the question.