Umpiring Positioning and Calls.

[WooPigSooie]

First of all, I am a new member of the forum and a very young and inexperienced umpire. My very first game calling HS Varsity, I was in the field (2 man crew). Runner on 1st and 2nd. I am in my position between 2nd and 3rd. Catcher throws behind the runner on 1st. Obviously, I do not have the angle. Everyone is looking at me for the call. Since I dont know she is out, I call the girl safe. Defensive team, fans, and coaches go nuts (evidently it wasnt close, she was out easily). I then ask for help from the home plate umpire because he has a better angle and he proceeds to tell me that is my call IN FRONT OF EVERYONE.

Who is correct? Is it definately my call EVEN THOUGH I obviously dont have the proper angle or is that a call that is suppose to go to HP umpire by default because of positioning. If I do make the call and it is wrong, can I ask for help in that scenario?

I apologize if this is a dumb question. I know the game front and back, but the thing I ran into MUCH more than anything is proper officiating mechanics. Thanks for the help.

[wadeintothem]

First: Where was your position exactly? Your position IMO should have been cheating toward the 2nd base side of F6 and watching for that.. and HP could help on 3B or even 1B if needed.

Second: PU equally messed up, especially if he knew you were new and he were experienced.. but either way team work is best.. and the way to handle that is a nice quiet conference between you two AFTER the _Safe_ call.. you cant guess someone out, but you can meet up with your PARTNER, which is what he should have been, and discuss the play.

Dont beat yourself up too much, thats a very difficult play to cover in 2 man with runners on 1B and 2B... angle, hustle, and team work definately required..

That said.. perfection is expected the FIRST game and improvement every game thereafter

[MrRabbit]

So you got screened from seeing first base catch the ball for the out. It happens. At that point you should have pointed at your partner and they should have made the call, that is why the PU is trailing the runner to first.

As for your partner, as mom would say when you have nothing good to say...

Rabbit

[WooPigSooie]

First off, MrRabbit, I think you are misunderstanding the situation. It wasnt a batted ball situation. I said throw behind when I should have said that it was a pickoff atempt by the catcher on the runner at first.

I was positioned toward the 2nd base side of the the SS.

[WooPigSooie]

I accidently submitted that last post before I was ready.

My real question is, in that exact situation, is that, by the book, my call? Because I dont see how that call can be made by the field umpire in a 2 man crew. Not the proper angle AT ALL.

[WestMichBlue]

"Not the proper angle AT ALL"

No, it is not the proper angle, nor will it ever be. It is even tough to get a good angle when you are in the "B" position.

But it is your call to make, and you try to anticipate the play, and hustle to improve your angle as best you can. Then make the call! If it is wrong you will hear about it, but don't go to your partner. Your call, you made it (to the best of your ability), end of discussion! UNLESS - the offended coach requests time and suggest to you that you may have been out of position and asks you to confer with your partner to see if they had a better view.

Talk to your partner, and if he convinces you to change your call, then do so. You announce it, and it becomes final and you go on with the game.

You never transfer a call to your partner, but you may seek his help before making your call. Many times from the "C" position you may not see the full play, whether it is a batted ball or pick-off play. You can point to your partner and loudly ask the pertinent question: PULL? (did she pull her foot?); TAG? (did she tag the runner?); DROP? (did she drop the ball?). When you get your YES or NO answer then YOU make the call.

This can be very impressive when pulled off right. Bang-Bang play at 1B, you shout to partner, "TAG?", he shouts back, "NO", and you sell a very big SAFE call. Even though some may not like the call, they saw a team in action and a very emphatic call and it is hard to dispute that call.

WMB


[Edited by WestMichBlue on Feb 15th, 2006 at 03:04 AM]

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by wadeintothem
First: Where was your position exactly? Your position IMO should have been cheating toward the 2nd base side of F6 and watching for that.. and HP could help on 3B or even 1B if needed.

I wonder? If you think about it, the umpire would have a much better angle from the right side of F6.

Shading toward second definitely put the BU closer to the play, but the call at first becomes two-dimensional. From the 3B side of the SS, you are a bit farther away, but with a much better angle especially if you step in a bit toward the play.

Just a thought. Agree with all other posters. Your call, could ask for help, but varsity game first day out?

Good luck

[JEL]

[i] Since I dont know she is out, I call the girl safe. . [/B]

I also agree with the other posters. Even after much experience this can still be a hard call to make.

You didn't see an out though and made the proper call, even if was not the "correct" one. A savvy coach would have asked you to confer with your partner. Smart coaches don't "go nuts" rather will ask you to confer with your partner. If a coach won't do that IMO s/he doesn't deserve a reversal!

[wadeintothem]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

I wonder? If you think about it, the umpire would have a much better angle from the right side of F6.

Shading toward second definitely put the BU closer to the play, but the call at first becomes two-dimensional. From the 3B side of the SS, you are a bit farther away, but with a much better angle especially if you step in a bit toward the play.

Just a thought. Agree with all other posters. Your call, could ask for help, but varsity game first day out?

Good luck

I guess it would depend on where F6 is.. IMO I've always thought in this Runner situation in two-man the BU should be in B and PU have 3B call completely on his own. But the mechanic is the mechanic.

I would for sure get myself to where I had a view in case this happens.

---------------------------------------------
WMB,
For my post I took "going nuts" to mean the coach was asking for the BU to get a 2nd Opinion from the PU and I think its proper for the BU to do that.

You can "sell" a safe call til the cows come home, with flare, pomp and circumstance - but if everyone saw the out but you, everyone will still know you blew it.

Considering this BU's "partner" situation, it would have been equally embarrassing to point at the BU and go "TAG?" and have the BU scream back "its your call" -- youre suggestion would have required team work on the umpiring side, which I dont beleive this poster had.

[Justme]

Originally posted by WooPigSooie
First of all, I am a new member of the forum and a very young and inexperienced umpire. My very first game calling HS Varsity, I was in the field (2 man crew). Runner on 1st and 2nd. I am in my position between 2nd and 3rd. Catcher throws behind the runner on 1st. Obviously, I do not have the angle. Everyone is looking at me for the call. Since I dont know she is out, I call the girl safe. Defensive team, fans, and coaches go nuts (evidently it wasnt close, she was out easily). I then ask for help from the home plate umpire because he has a better angle and he proceeds to tell me that is my call IN FRONT OF EVERYONE.

Who is correct? Is it definately my call EVEN THOUGH I obviously dont have the proper angle or is that a call that is suppose to go to HP umpire by default because of positioning. If I do make the call and it is wrong, can I ask for help in that scenario?

I apologize if this is a dumb question. I know the game front and back, but the thing I ran into MUCH more than anything is proper officiating mechanics. Thanks for the help.

First, there are no dumb questions.

Second, a young & inexperienced umpire working a varsity game, too much pressure. You should have been working with an experienced umpire and he should have helped you out IF he saw something different. It should have been a private conversation between the two of you. No matter what anyone says, the days of living or dying by the call are ending. We need to get the call right, even if it means going to our partner...but with all that said, there are situations when you won't go for help. Your partner should have been looking at the play also, and if he had a better angle he should have communicated that to you. When I see my partner out of position and I have good position on the play I will indicate to him that I have something that might help him make the correct call, if he needs help. I try to protect my partner, especially an inexperienced one. It's all about team work, communication and getting the call right. Remember the name of that plate umpire and never work with him again

Third, it was your call. You need to always be watching the ball, moving into the correct position, and expect things like pick-off attempts like this. It comes with experience, it will come to you.

Fourth, don't let the coaches tell you when to go for help. Learn to sell your calls.

Fifth, there's not an umpire on this board who hasn't 'kicked' a call (or two), so forget it and move on.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Of course this is a difficult call. It is probably the most difficult call on the field, and there really isn't much you can do about it.

For all the people telling you to anticipate the play, there is still little you can do if it is an immediate snap throw from the catcher. If you walk toward that play on every pitch, you will walk into the shortstop covering a snap throw through to second, at some point. To the right of F6 gives you a little better angle to 1B, but takes you away from the same snap pickoff play at 2B. The suggestion that B is better, and let PU take steals of third makes no sense, since PU will never be able to call a fadeaway slide to the outfield side of 3B from 60 feet away.

So, what do you do? Exactly what you did. Make your best call, don't guess an out, and go for help when you know you really didn't see it. In fact, the NCAA MANDATES going for help on a pickoff at 1B or 3B if EITHER coach requests, simply because this play just can't be seen well in 2 man mechanics. Then, have your discussion on this play in a private conversation, not the "across the field" ask for help. If PU refuses to help, or makes a public announcement like you stated, you have no choice but to stay with your call. After the game, tell your assignor that you will not work with that umpire again; if you are going to work alone, you might as well be alone.

[Andy]

Some very good comments here, let me add my two cents.

This play is one of the biggest flaws in the two umpire system. The BU has a crappy angle and a long distance to call the pickoff at first. The PU has a better angle, but also has a batter and catcher to work around and monitor their actions after the pitch. The PU also has to be aware of the runner on second and be ready to cover the play at third is she breaks on the attempted pickoff at first.

One thing you can do to help with this play is what has been called "working between pitches". In the C position with runners on first and second, once the pitch has not been hit, start taking a few steps into the infield and "read" the catcher. If she throws to first for the pickoff, you are already moving that direction and can get closer to the play to make your call. You may still have the same crappy angle, but by being closer to the play, you give the appearance that you are hustling to be in the best position possible to make the call. This can go a long way in helping you sell that call.

This is the BUs call. Make the best call you can with the information you have. If requested, you may want to ask your partner for help. The proper way to do this is to get together with your partner away from any coaches or players and converse amongst yourselves. The question I will usually ask is: "OK partner, I have a ____ call, did you see anything different?" Get your partners input then either change your initial call or stick with it.

My advice to you, as a new umpire, would be to study the rules, mechanics, signals, and positioning of umpiring. These are the foundation of our craft. Once you have those down solid, you can start adding the little things like I have outlined above to enhance your appearance and credibility. Being in a HS Varsity game your first year out is tough, but keep working on making yourself a better umpire.

[wadeintothem]

Originally posted by Justme
No matter what anyone says, the days of living or dying by the call are ending. We need to get the call right, even if it means going to our partner...but with all that said, there are situations when you won't go for help. Your partner should have been looking at the play also, and if he had a better angle he should have communicated that to you. When I see my partner out of position and I have good position on the play I will indicate to him that I have something that might help him make the correct call, if he needs help. I try to protect my partner, especially an inexperienced one. It's all about team work, communication and getting the call right.

Agree with that and especially the part about it being more important to get the call right than die by your call -- and glad to see it happening. Its stressed in our local fed association (and ASA which is basically many of the same people). Its fine to go for help, but team work is the essential part of that.

[SC Ump]

Originally posted by WooPigSooie
... a very young and inexperienced umpire.
...Defensive team, fans, and coaches go nuts (evidently it wasnt close, she was out easily).

Don't believe it wasn't close just because they went nuts. They can smell new guys. There is just a certain confidence you build in your calls after you have some experience. I might have blown a close one tonight, but I "sold it" and I got a boo or two, but nothing bad.

That being said, the call you made is one of the toughest. Most organizations do want the base guy to make it. My personal opinion is to get a good angle. Is there a way to take a couple of giant steps forward, slightly right, just as you see the throw is going to happen? There is no perfect way to make this call.

As for your plate guy... forget about his action. It was completely wrong.

Hang in there. The first year can be a tough one, but it gets more and more fun.

[WooPigSooie]

First of all, thanks guys for all the input. Becoming a member of this board is already paying dividends.

Now, let me clarify my experience. When I said I was a young, inexperienced umpire, I meant at the varsity level. While in college during my summers, I umpired 14U, 12U, and 10U on a regular basis. Umpiring in those groups prepared me for proper mechanics, blah blah blah. What it did not prepare me for was the game speed. For example, there are VERY VERY VERY VERY rarely pickoff attempts in those age groups. Unless you have a prodigy behind the plate, most coaches view it as too much of a risk to let their catcher fling the ball all over the field. To sum up, umpiring the lower age groups did not prepare me for a 17 or 18 yr old senior that has a cannon behind the plate.

As far as positioning, I have quickly determined that if I am the 'C' position with a runner on 1st and 2nd, it doesnt matter if I am on the 2B or 3B side of the SS. There is going to be an angle that will ultimately suffer. (IE, 3B side of the SS gives me a better angle for the pickoff at 1st but not for a pickoff at second and vice versa). So, I need to establish which side of the SS I feel I need to be on to properly be in 'good to decent' position to make any or all those calls.

As for the help from my plate guy, if I am absolutely not sure, I should ask for help and hope that he is not a huge donkey about the deal.

Once again, thanks for the replies. Reading them and combining the different views while establishing my own methods is probably the best way to make sure I am improving my mechanics, which is why I originally posted.