4th Out?

[Steve M]

Mike,
Good, that'll teach me to read & respond to a board after heading to the local barr/restaurant for dinner. It was a good meal & even seemed to get better as the night went on.
Hmmmmmmmmm

[oppool]

Roger,

Believe me I was not ingoring your post last night you seem to be the 1st to hit this head on with what I believe we all are on the same page with this now. What did happen I believe at least a couple times is we were posting about the same time and by time I updated the screen and saw your posted I had already or was still typing on my post.


Anyways will wait now and see what Mike can find out from the National guy to see how we are to call if this situation would come up.


Thanks

Don

[oppool]

Hey Mike

Just wondering if you had talked to the national person yet on a answer to this post


Thanks

Don

[IRISHMAFIA]

Tomorrow morning at breakfast in Middletown, DE

[Dave Slickenmeyer]

Gentleman:
Forgive me for reading into this play and seeing something that everyone appears to be missing. No matter when the third out is made,the play at first base is still a force play out for the third out. No matter when the run scores, it can not be counted when the play at first results in the third out "force play". There does not seem to be any rule rational, as in "first play in the infield" when an overthrow results that goes out of play, to be used as a timing situation. In my mind, even if this play appears to end the game, it cannot be counted.
Any other opinions to this statement?

DWSlick0223

[SamNVa]

Dave,

The question here is should you allow a fourth out at 1st base to count as the "final" out of an inning and disallow a run, even though the thrid out has already been recorded.

The rule book says that the defense only gets 3 outs to retire the offense and that when the third out is made, the inning is over. If the defense decided to get that 3rd out on a tag play which allows a runner to score, should we let them off the hook just because they were able to record a "fourth" out which happened to be a force?

The rule books give a specific example where a fourth out is allowed on an appeal play against the runner that scored which results in the run not counting, but I am hesitant to extend that example to any situation in which a fourth out could disallow a run. The defense gets 3 outs to retire the offense. They had better use them wisely.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Dave,

I have no idea what you are talking about concerning the "first play in the infield" comment.

However, as far as ASA is concerned, the team may continue with a play after the tag out to get an additional force for the fourth out of the inning. When I questioned my Regional UIC as there is no reference in the rule book, he reiterated the interpretation that basically means the defense has the option of going after the force as the final out of the inning even though they had executed a successful tag for an out in the same play.

This was over breakfast and he was a guest at our school this weekend. Personally, I'm glad I didn't decide to get confrontational about the interpretation as I got a little gift later in the morning d;-)

[oppool]

Mike

Appreciate your effort in getting a clarification on how ASA want this to be called but hope sometime in the future you or one of the other guys in here can discuss this with the writers and either get a better clarification in the rule book or change the ruling. It is still hard for me to understand why we are giving this advantage to the defense after a recorded 3rd out and a new inning has started as per rule book. Also dont understand how this would fall under any 4th out appeal rights by the defense since this was not a running violation that happen before the 3rd out occured.


Guess I am just to picky or dumb


Don

[Roger Greene]

I'm with you Don.
(Ain't that scary???) {big G}
Roger Greene, Member UT

[IRISHMAFIA]

I agree. I would love to have something in the rule book just to cover this, but it is my belief that they will accept the "last out made" as the 3rd out of the inning for the purpose of scoring or disallowing a run.