|
|||
Quote:
__________________
Wearing the uniform doesnt make you an official anymore than going to McDonalds makes you a hamburger. |
|
|||
What he was saying was that this was probably a set play, not a baserunning mistake. I've had it used in games that I was umpiring. The intent is to cause chaos in the defense and allow R1 to score.
You need to make a judgment as to when the "play" (such as it is) is over. This will be when it is clear the defense is not going to be snookered. It is not so much a matter of allowing the right amount of time to pass as it is allowing the playing action to cease.
__________________
Tom |
|
|||
Quote:
__________________
Wearing the uniform doesnt make you an official anymore than going to McDonalds makes you a hamburger. |
|
|||
Right 1/3 of the time ?
ASA Case Play 8.8-66 page 99 of the 2005-06 Case Book (yes you put the runner back).....NFHS Case Play 8.3.3 Situation B page 50 of the 2005 NFHS Softball Case Book..With R1 on third, R2 on second and R3 on first, R3 legally steals second but R2 does not advance. The pitcher receives the ball in the circle from the catcher and makes no play on any runner. May both runners remain at second? RULING : No. The umpire, after allowing a reasonable amount of time for a play to be made, shall declare the ball dead and call R3 out. College....haven't found that one yet.....I'd be interested to see what Kevin Ryan thought of this difference ?
|
|
|||
"I'd be interested to see what Kevin Ryan thought of this difference?"
In this case, while he should dislike the difference, I just can't see any defense to calling the runner out. The LBR just doesn't apply to a runner staying in contact with a base, even if you think they aren't entitled to it. That same argument would make a LBR call required on a missed base or left too early without an appeal! Two runners on a base doesn't apply, since the rule states the remedy is to tag both runners (which the defense is refusing to do). The defense has remedies, which it has chosen to refuse, in fear a run might score during the play. If the defensive coach wants an out, he/she needs to coach the team how to get that out, without giving up a run. You aren't helping the offense by returning the runner; you are following the only reasonable interpretation (as decided BEFORE it was first put in this year's casebook). Maybe the question should be placed to Mary Struckoff how she justifies the FED ruling, instead? |
|
|||
Speaking ASA.
Steve M already gave you the answer. Case Play 8.8-66. __________________ Tom thanks, Tom. I knew I'd seen that as a case book play. Now, for Fed ball - handle it the same way. This is not listed in last year's rules differences (trusting my memory again) and is not a rule change for this year, so - treat it the same.
__________________
Steve M |
|
|||
How are these two connected ?
Quote:
|
|
|||
Re: How are these two connected ?
Quote:
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball. |
|
|||
Re: Re: How are these two connected ?
Quote:
__________________
Wearing the uniform doesnt make you an official anymore than going to McDonalds makes you a hamburger. |
|
|||
LBR does apply
Here is food for thought....
R3 is not entitled to 2B. As a result of LBR, R1 and R2 committed to their respective entitled base. R3 is obligated to return to 1B in a reasonable time period. R3 is called out and play resumes. R3 can not legally advance on the play as described and Rule 8.7T can be enforced. |
|
|||
Re: LBR does apply
Quote:
#1. Please show me in 8.7.T where is says the runner must be on THE base to which they are entitled. #2. Rule 8.3 states that when two runners occupy the same base, the runner not entitled is out when touched with the ball. Therefore, to put the runner out, the defense must tag them off the base to which they ARE entitled. However, to do so, would constitute a play on the runner. #3. Casebook 8.8.66 supports calling time and returning the runner to 1B.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball. |
|
|||
R1 on 3B, R2 on 2B, R3 on 1B - less than 2 outs.
R3 takes off on the pitch and goes to 2B while F2 returns ball to F1. We now have R2 on 2B with R3 also on 2B with the ball in the circle. LBR not in effect because no runners are off a base. True or False? The only way to resolve this is for the defense to make a play at 2B and tag R1. True or False? 8.7T(1) When a runner is legitimately off a base after a pitch or as a result of a batter completing a turn at bat, and while the pitcher has control of the ball within an eight foot radius of the pitchers plate, the runner may stop once, but then must immediately return to the base or attempt to advance to the next base. 8.3B When a runner or batter-runner acquires the right to a base by touching it before being put out, the runner or batter-runner is entitled to hold the base until legally touching the next base in order or is forced to vacate it for a suceeding runner. In this instance, the B-R did not acquire the right to 2B. She could not steal 2B as it was occupied so she was obligated to return to 1B. 8.7T(2)does say that the runner must immediately return to the base or attempt to advance to the next base. The LBR is in effect since she off 1B. I may have used the term "entitled" incorrectly in this case. My apologies to all. Can the R3 legally occupy 2B? She can't "occupy" 2B because she was not forced to vacate 1B. R2 is not "forced" to vacate 2B. Seems to me that if R3 does not make an "immediate" move to return to 1B then that runner can be called out. How can I get a copy of the ASA casebook? I would like to read through it. What rules support calling time and returning R3 to 1B? |
|
|||
You can call ASA Proprties in OK City 73111 [1-800-654-8337]
glen
__________________
glen _______________________________ "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." --Mark Twain. |
|
|||||
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball. |
|
|||||
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Tom |
Bookmarks |
|
|