Your view please

[Dakota]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
If the throw to 1st base is at the same time as the runner is attempting to return, this is absolutely not an appeal play. This is purely a judgement call - did the ball beat the runner, and requires an immediate call.

I was with ya right up to here. It is an appeal play. I must be misunderstanding you.

The live ball appeal does not normally need to also be verbalized. Everyone in the ball park knows why the throw was made back to the base, even though they may not know its proper name. An umpire who would insist on a verbal appeal in the situation described in the initial post is not correctly applying the rules on a proper live ball appeal.

This is not to say that there are NOT situations where the verbal must accompany the live ball appeal for it to be recognized. DDTB game an example. Here's another: BR bunts up the 3rd base line. Fielder snags the ball and fires to 1st base, but it arrives a step late. BR has stepped across 1st before the arrival of the throw, but did not touch 1st.

F3 does catch the throw with her foot on the bag. Even though technically this is a throw to the missed base, it should not be recognized as a live ball appeal for the missed base (it is more likely a late play on the force out) unless F3 also says words to the effect of "she missed the base, Blue" before the runner returns to the bag.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by debeau
The players throwing the ball back to the base are doing so because they know the runner had left before the ball was first touched and that the runner cant do this .

I'm sorry, but I seriously doubt that the outfielders have time to study the runners and keep an eye on each one while catching the ball to see exactly the base to which they need to throw the ball to get an out. I can tell you as a player, coach and umpire, someone is telling them where to throw the ball. You may block it out, but the outfielder is not making this decision on their own.

I have chatted with numerous players and coaches after the game as to this and all were unaware that it was an appeal .Logically we cant give an out if the players dont know that it is an appeal play even though you think that the act of throwing the ball back is enough .

Most don't know the difference between obstruction and interference either, but that doesn't stop the umpire from making the call. In 38 years of umpiring baseball and softball, I've yet to hear a player or coach come out and state, "The catcher obstructed". Ten out of ten times, unless it is a player or coach who is also an umpire, it's going to be "the catcher interfered!"

Only once have I ruled interference instead of obstruction and that was because the coach was such a bonehead and argued with me that he knows interference when he sees it and I was wrong if I ruled obstruction. So, I gave him his wish can called out the runner that was knocked down rounding 1st.

They all thought it was an automatic out .

If it were automatic, why would they bother throwing the ball?

No I have never heard a team member yelling throw it back unless the player has gone on to the next base and no I am not deaf
Maybe we need better education of players/ coaches

They get the rules. If they want to learn, fine. However, my experience shows many players have no place for rules. They believe what they learned playing sandlot ball or saw in the game on the TV the night before is the way every stick, ball and base game is played.

I find that many would rather argue how wrong a ruling is even if you read the rule to them verbatim from the book because it doesn't jive with their beliefs.

[wadeintothem]

Shoulda just ejected the coach.. not called a girl out who wasnt out just because the coach was confused on the rule term and insisted on an out that wasnt an out... or something.

Bad call Mike.

Hey, does elite slow pitch umpire mean you can sell an out without dropping your corndog or spilling your beer?

*runs and hides*

(Just kidden Mike)

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by wadeintothem
Shoulda just ejected the coach.. not called a girl out who wasnt out just because the coach was confused on the rule term and insisted on an out that wasnt an out... or something.

Bad call Mike.

It was a tournament one of the local associations runs as a fund-raiser. The team with the idiot has always been an idiot and supposedly knows the rules better then anyone in the world because he was an umpire. Yeah, one year and bailed because he didn't always get his way. Also, had a habit of making rules up as he went along.

Nope, I gave Mr. Know-It-All exactly what he deserved.

Hey, does elite slow pitch umpire mean you can sell an out without dropping your corndog or spilling your beer?

No, it means that an overhand out is sufficient enough of a sell call. BTW, would never spill the beer. Always put it down before making a call. Don't want to take any chances, you know!

*runs and hides*

No problem, I can toss you just as easy from 300' away as I can from 10'. It just may take a little longer to reach you.

[wadeintothem]

phew i survived.

WTH, I've been known to widen the strike zone ever so slightly (just a little itty bitty) upon receipt of the evil eye from the batter...

So who am I to judge?

Bet he went running to the rule book after that.

[rhsc]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wadeintothem
[B]phew i survived.


This is almost as fun as the games. Im sure glad yall respect each other, cuz there sure aint no luv.