Crow hop is never called!

[jstark23]

Originally posted by nubie
Dak, Weather in Ca's great, of course; didn't think that needed an answer, isn't the weather ALWAYS great in Ca? NOW, will YOU answer the ?: why won't the umps call the illegal pitches, leaping/hopping( because tournament directors tell umps what to call sounds like hired guns & a real shame, if true!?) & finally bring this "year long topic?" to a close, or it'll go on forever, as will the hopper problem, due in part, to you, blue!!! Take a stand & Stop the Hop!

Nubie, I have give you an opportunity to come help us stop the hop, I guess you are still working on the plane reservations

[bellnier]

Thanks Tom...sadly, most of what you said IS a surprise to me and probably a lot of others that coach at lower level travelball or rec ball. I'll just have to get my mind around the concept that the rules aren't really rules, per se, but just sort of a guideline that can sort of followed, or not, depending on how the organizers want their organization or tournament to 'feel'.

So, here's my question (I'm not trying to be confrontational...I just want to understand the process):

At the higher levels of FP are the coaches informed beforehand as to what rules are to be ignored or given 'low priority'? How do you handle a coach that says "sheesh, at the last tournament you guys were callin' that one...how come you're not callin' it now?".

Thanks.

It's 47 and partly cloudy.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by bellnier
How do you handle a coach that says "sheesh, at the last tournament you guys were callin' that one...how come you're not callin' it now?".

The umpire's response to this, or any other question concerning particular directions given to the umpires should be:

I'm sorry, Sir/Ma'am. You will need to direct that question to the UIC/TD.

Thank you.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by bellnier
At the higher levels of FP are the coaches informed beforehand as to what rules are to be ignored or given 'low priority'?

At the upper levels, most of this actually originates with the coaches. JMO.

[bellnier]

Thanks Mike, your brief but always to-the-point answers are greatly appreciated. While I admire your integrity and loyalty as an employee, I'm still not a big fan of the 'rules du jour' concept in any sport, especially if it results in an unfair competitive advantage (it feels like we keep losing sight of this concept).

[Dakota]

To those who think the IP should be strictly called by the book...

How about 10U league play? Call 'em all?

Oh, THAT'S different!

Really? Why?

[JEL]

Originally posted by Dakota
To those who think the IP should be strictly called by the book...

How about 10U league play? Call 'em all?

Oh, THAT'S different!

Really? Why?

Our 10U league play games have a 75 minute time limit. Were we to call all IP's, the home team wouldn't ever get a chance to bat!

[bellnier]

JEL: In a lot of organizations there are different rules for different age levels (size of ball, pitching distance, stealing/no stealing, can't steal home, etc.). If the IP rules are unworkable at 10U, modify or delete the rule. No big deal.

My gripe (I'm NOT railing, though) is the uneven application of existing rules at upper levels of play, decided not by umps or even by the UIC (as I learned today) but by tournament directors or league officials that apparently know better than those folks that spend many hours working and reworking rules and POEs so that the game is played as fairly as achievable.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by bellnier

My gripe (I'm NOT railing, though) is the uneven application of existing rules at upper levels of play, decided not by umps or even by the UIC (as I learned today) but by tournament directors or league officials that apparently know better than those folks that spend many hours working and reworking rules and POEs so that the game is played as fairly as achievable.

Where did anyone say there was an "uneven application"?
Don't read things into a post that are not there.

Do you think a coach at a college showcase wants to sit there an watch umpire's call girls illegal all day? The coaches know what they are looking for in a pitcher and they know if they are illegal or not.

This is just one of many different circumstances where umpires may be given instructions contrary to the Championship Play rules.

[nubie]

Now, bell, that's callin a spade a spade! Rules du jour!! What a laugh!! Umps being told at the start of EACH tournament which rules are to be enforced & which ones will be ignored, by the tournament director, so certain teams are at an advantage, that's how it goes? WOW!!!Makes softball a legit sport I see guys! You guys are laughable & diggin yourselves deeper & deeper, makin you guys look bad! Yea, let's even then turn the subject to t-ball, 10U?, instead of 18U/college ball so we can talk in circles again!

Originally posted by bellnier
Thanks Mike, your brief but always to-the-point answers are greatly appreciated. While I admire your integrity and loyalty as an employee, I'm still not a big fan of the 'rules du jour' concept in any sport, especially if it results in an unfair competitive advantage (it feels like we keep losing sight of this concept).

[bkbjones]

Can somebody PLEASE get Mick's dead horse on here...

[bellnier]

Sorry...I wasn't restricting myself to just the posts, but was referring to experience and observation. I've coached and seen 16U qualifiers where IPs were called as they occurred, and others, in the same season, where IPs were never called (I assume, now, by order of the organizers of each particular tournament). That's my definition of uneven application.

This is way off topic, but it still amazes me that at D1 NCAA level there are so many girls with bad pitching/throwing mechanics. My DD (who had not-so-great throwing mechanics) has retired from softball and moved on to rugby...where the rules, by rule, are not immediately applied by the ref unless the violation reverses the advantage in play...otherwise it's PLAY ON.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by bellnier
...and others, in the same season, where IPs were never called (I assume, now, by order of the organizers of each particular tournament). That's my definition of uneven application..

Just because some Chevys are cars does not mean that all cars are Chevys nor that all Chevys are cars.

The renewal of this thread (which started, by the way, as a joke) was mainly about NCAA Div 1 pitching and application of the NCAA pitching rules by umpires.

Just because some tournaments (or overall organizations, such as NCAA) make unwritten adjustments to the rules regarding leaping does not mean than everytime you see a leap not called that the umpire was so instructed.

Sometimes poor or inconsistent umpiring is just that - poor or inconsistent umpiring.

I would venture, however, that the umpire crews in the NCAA national tournament were calling the IP pretty much exactly the way they have been instructed to call it.

[Dakota]

Noob, you can call names all you want, but when was the last time you saw an NCAA Div 1 coach complain about a leap not being called?

Just because YOU are not part of the "in crowd" that knows how the rules are being applied at the NCAA Div 1 level does not mean the coaches there are not seeing the game called just as they expect it to be called, by and large.

It is very common for the written rules to be adjusted based on league, age category, tournament, etc. It happens ALL THE TIME, and umpires are expected to call the game as instructed. A well-run tournament will have coach's packets that will outline most of this; some will be communicated verbally; and some will be communicated by experience with the tournament and the level of play.

If you think the NCAA interpretation of their IP rules is having a bad influence on the game, take that up with the NCAA. It is not an umpire problem.

And, Noob, if you thing that Cat O is by herself in taking advantage of the NCAA IP rule interpretation, you have not been watching many games. Or, you have been watching them with resentment of burnt orange seared into your retinas.

[Skahtboi]

Originally posted by Dakota
Noob, you can call names all you want, but when was the last time you saw an NCAA Div 1 coach complain about a leap not being called?

I am glad that somebody can understand his gibberish.