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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 26, 2004, 01:28pm
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Location: Twin Cities MN
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I'm somewhat amazed by umpires who are fretting over a rule that requires judgment.

I agree such a rule has no place in a national rule book.

However, we have a local (state) rule called the "Family Atmosphere" rule or some such which works very well in the JO arena. I can't say about adult ball, since I don't call adult ball.

I would not at all be surprised if I learned that even here the rule is enforced very differently in different leagues and in different areas of the state. So what? I've used the rule a time or two, but only in the sense of warning the coach that the rule exists and that he better get control of his players/coaches/fans (as appropriate).

Again - JO.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 26, 2004, 01:59pm
goldcoastump
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I agree that we should not be language police, but I know that if I let "bad" language go in any game things are only going to get worse. I called the Men's Modified Nationals and Bagman is right it was accepted there. They use the F word as an adjective "such as you f---ing umps are the greatest" now how are you going to throw a man out for that. Most of the time they were using it at themselves. In a JO game,I would not tolerate even the slightest cuss word. Use them and its an automatic "seeya".
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 26, 2004, 05:53pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by goldcoastump
I agree that we should not be language police, but I know that if I let "bad" language go in any game things are only going to get worse. I called the Men's Modified Nationals and Bagman is right it was accepted there. They use the F word as an adjective "such as you f---ing umps are the greatest" now how are you going to throw a man out for that. Most of the time they were using it at themselves. In a JO game,I would not tolerate even the slightest cuss word. Use them and its an automatic "seeya".
There use to be a language rule in Richmond, VA. Don't know if they still use it, odds are they do. The rule is that if a player cusses, the other team gets a free out.

My team is batting against a team from NYC. With two outs and a couple of runners on, one of our guys hits a line drive just out of the pitcher's reach. The pitcher comes down and ever so silently utters, "Jesus, God" to himself. The umpire heard Jesus and determined that comment was taking the name of the Lord in vain (sp) and removed an out from her indicator.

Forget the fact that we went on to score a load more runs that inning, but you now had someone imposing their religious feelings on someone from a completely different culture.

Though we benefitted from the call, we sided with the other team when they argued the point. It is just out right wrong.

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Old Wed Oct 27, 2004, 09:50am
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Quote:
Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
There use to be a language rule in Richmond, VA. Don't know if they still use it, odds are they do. The rule is that if a player cusses, the other team gets a free out.

My team is batting against a team from NYC. With two outs and a couple of runners on, one of our guys hits a line drive just out of the pitcher's reach. The pitcher comes down and ever so silently utters, "Jesus, God" to himself. The umpire heard Jesus and determined that comment was taking the name of the Lord in vain (sp) and removed an out from her indicator.

Forget the fact that we went on to score a load more runs that inning, but you now had someone imposing their religious feelings on someone from a completely different culture.

Though we benefitted from the call, we sided with the other team when they argued the point. It is just out right wrong.
First, as I said above, such rules have a place in JO ball, and as local rules. I have no position on adult ball.

Second, your story has a lot in common with the poor umpire judgment "cost us the game" stories on eteamz, except your team won ("both coaches agreed it was a bad call..." yadda, yadda...) Because some umpire somewhere applied the rule with poor judgment does not, per se, indict the rule.

Third, any team playing in an out-of-state tournament that does not know the local rules has only themselves to blame.

And, please, enough with the "imposing religion" references. It was pure and simple a judgment call on what constituted an violation of the profanity rule. You may think the judgment was poor. So may I. But, in the end, it was just simply umpire judgment.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 27, 2004, 10:55am
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In the words of Lenny Bruce, "Words do not have meaning, people have meaning".

Look at the word "bad", ask a 65 year old person what they mean when thay say "That is Bad" and then ask a 15 or a 25 year old and you will get at least two meanings of the word "Bad"

Normally I would say "Use Common Sense" but I remember if it were "Common" everyone would have it.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 27, 2004, 11:51am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dakota
First, as I said above, such rules have a place in JO ball, and as local rules. I have no position on adult ball.

Second, your story has a lot in common with the poor umpire judgment "cost us the game" stories on eteamz, except your team won ("both coaches agreed it was a bad call..." yadda, yadda...) Because some umpire somewhere applied the rule with poor judgment does not, per se, indict the rule.

Third, any team playing in an out-of-state tournament that does not know the local rules has only themselves to blame.

And, please, enough with the "imposing religion" references. It was pure and simple a judgment call on what constituted an violation of the profanity rule. You may think the judgment was poor. So may I. But, in the end, it was just simply umpire judgment.
Sorry, Tom, but I have to completely disagree here. You have never played ball in Richmond, have you?

There are a lot of goofy rules that you will never see in Championship Play even though Frank Taylor has tried to force them into ASA in the past.

I also knew who the umpire was and she later became one of Frank's personal assistants.

It was a terribly religious imposition and she (the umpire) made it clear that her call was based on her religious upbringing. I've heard the same thing elsewhere, on the field and on these boards.

There is no place for such subjective rules INCLUDING at the youth level. An umpire's belief, religious or otherwise, have no place on the field.

Do not take this as meaning that I completely ignore language not directed at me. I will talk to players and coaches whom I believe are getting a bit loud with what some may perceive as profanity. However, I will not allow my preferences or that of anyone else to become part of the game.

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