Pulled Foot Appeal

CoachBlue · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Aug 25, 2004, 01:00pm

This came up at a clinic I was at the other day. We were talking about different appeal plays. Assume that the Base Ump is accross the field behind short. Runner on 2nd or 3rd, it doesn't matter. The ball is hit and the play is made on the Batter Runner at 1st base. My question "Who can make the Appeal to the Field Ump for the "Pulled Foot" was to get some of our rookie umps to think. During the conversation one of our Veteran umps said that a "Pulled Foot" was not an appeal type play. He said that if he thought there was a pulled foot he is suppose to ask the Plate ump if there was a pulled foot before he makes the "Safe or Out" call. I have never seen this done nor have I been tought this. I have always believed that this is an "Appeal" play that has to be made from the Defense. I have read the book "ASA" until I'm seeing double and I can't find it one way or the other. I could be looking right over it, I don't know. I just want to make sure I'm doing it the correct way. All comments are welcome.

#2 (**permalink**) Wed Aug 25, 2004, 01:09pm

It's true that it is not an appeal play, but a quick-thinking base umpire would check with the plate umpire on what might appear to be a pulled foot. If he/she didn't think it was a pulled foot, but the defense "appeals" it, then the base umpire would be best to ask for help.

Dakota · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Aug 25, 2004, 01:16pm

It is not an appeal play by definition. An appeal play is defined in Rule 1 as (paraphrasing) a play where the umpire may not make a call until a proper appeal is made. Obviously that is not the case here. The umpire can make the call. Appeal plays are things like a missed base, batting out-of-order, leaving early on a caught fly, etc.

What you are describing is an "asking your partner for help" play. In common language of the game, you will often hear a coach or player say "I want to appeal a pulled foot" but what he really means is "Would you please check with your partner, I saw a pulled foot."

3afan · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Aug 25, 2004, 02:07pm

in one of our HS clinics we were told to go to the home plate ump before making the call when there is a question of the pulled foot. that was right before this past HS season, in January. it was the first time many of us had ever heard of this specific mechanic. i think during the year most of us used the 'old style', just making the call, then if the defensive team asked us to go to our partner for help then we did. if for example you have bases loaded & lots of stuff going on you may not have time to go to the home plate umpire 'realtime', and he might be looking to see if a runner touched 3rd or something else. as the home plate ump you certainly don't want to miss something else while concentrating on the play at first .........

FUBLUE · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Aug 25, 2004, 03:17pm

What was just described is the biggest reason I make the call, and then ask for the "appeal" if needed. A lot of guys in our association want to point to plate umpire (not say anything, just point) and let them make the call.

Worked with one guy who would point an everything that was close. Since it was a blowout game, on one play that was obviously an out I pointed back

For me, I make the call, if coach asks me to check with my partner I'll ask. If not, play ball. (also coaches will ask for control of ball, traps, three-foot lane violations, etc).

WestMichBlue · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Aug 25, 2004, 04:41pm

If it is my call on a swipe tag or possible pulled foot - AND I AM NOT ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE what I see, then I am going to my partner and yell "PULL?" or "TAG?" He is going to give me a yes or no, a safe or out, and I am then going to make the call. It is as impressive as hell when you point across the field and yell "PULL?" and partner yell "YES" and you yell and sell "SAFE!" No arguments when you successfully use that mechanic.

This can be used when you are in "C" and F2 tries a pickoff at 1B. BU - "TAG? PU - "YES!" BU - "OUT!"

WMB

azbigdawg · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Aug 25, 2004, 05:04pm

get the information BEFORE you make the call if at all possible...it avoids having to change it. I have found that if yu get all the ifno, and then make the correct call, youre gonna hear it a LOT less than if you make it and reverse it

LT · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Aug 25, 2004, 06:21pm

Interesting conversation on this one....

Just the past two years in our umpire association clinics that works NCAA games, we were told to "make the call...don't point and ask for assistance...if the teams wish for you to ask for help, then go for the help."

This has become the SOP and we are evaluated on that procedure.

I know for many years we asked for help before making the call, this has been a BIG change for us...but that is what we are asked to do.

And to be honest, it has worked out just fine and the coaches like it.....coaches told our association leadership that they didn't want to see the umpires "pointing at each other."

LT

FUBLUE · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Aug 25, 2004, 11:55pm

Our HS association can't agree on this one. I like to make the call as BU and then if coach asks for appeal on pulled foot, swipe tag, etc., I can get together with my partner and talk about it.

The problem with the point is this: some veterans and a lot of new umpires won't come back immediately with yes or not, they just stand there looking stupid, then say something. It may be the right call, but it looks like he/she is making it up.

We always stress pre-game conference, and this is one thing that must be covered in the pre-game.

Steve M · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Aug 26, 2004, 03:34am

Going to my partner before I make the call - to get all the info I need - is the correct way when/if I have any doubt about the fielder holding the base. I have only ever had a couple of times that I needed this kind of input before I made the call. Asking my partner if the was a pulled foot after I have made the call - in response to a coach's request - is also correct. I have asked my partner, in response to a coach, lots of times.

Del-Blue · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Aug 26, 2004, 06:55am

I do not like the mechanic of going to partner before making a call. There are a lot of times the PU is busy with other duties, than IMO both look stupid and are guessing. I have NO problem going to my partner if there is a question in my mind, but I will make the call first.

Lets just say there is a runner on second, and the BU has a question on the play at first, and the runner on second held the bag until the throw to first, when she goes to third. Now with the play at first the BU has a question, and points to the PU who has moved to third for the play there. Now when pointed to, the BU is unsure of the pulled foot, and calls the runner safe, and has a bang, bang play at third. His/her comcentration has now been taken off the play at third. What kind of grief do you think you will get from the coaches????

Make the call, and than go to your partner if requested to do so.

JMOHO

Bob

azbigdawg · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Aug 26, 2004, 07:29am

If the PU has other responsibilities, then sure, make the call. But if thats the only play AND YOURE NOT SURE, get help before ya make it. Theres no shame there.

WestMichBlue · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Aug 26, 2004, 07:47am

What is interesting is to turn this question around and put in another thread (as we have done) the issue of PU responsibilities when he may have a play at 3B. The question is: do you move up 1B line, or move more towards the center of the field, or stay in foul territory, or move up the 3B line, etc.

8 or 10 respondents will tell you to "Follow your priorities." Your first priority is the B-R and watching for pulled foot or swipe tag or interference. Second priority is runner into 3B.

So now you are saying that you cannot depend on your partner (PU) because he is got other things to do than watch the B-R all to way to 1B.

Well, if that is true then you might as well make the call. It won't matter if the coach asks you to discuss it with your partner because he wasn't watching anyway.

If your partner is following correct mechanics, then why not get his opinion before you make the call. I don't believe in guessing at a call and then transferring the responsibility to the coach to get involved in order to get the call right.

This mechanic should only be used when you are not absolutely sure that you saw the play. If you are comfortable with your decision - make the call. Then if a coach disagrees you can review the play with your partner and maybe, or maybe not you will change the call. But when you are not sure, get help first. It helps to sell the call!

WMB

Steve M · #14 (**permalink**) Thu Aug 26, 2004, 10:51am

Like I said - I have only asked my partner about a pulled foot before making the call a handful of times. And I've never heard a squawk on any of those. But again, only check first if you're not positive - and with the hustling & getting the best angle possible, you should not need to very often.

hahnhdwe · #15 (**permalink**) Thu Aug 26, 2004, 11:35am

I like to make the call. first you are letting the players know if the ball beat the runner. If I think the foot is pulled I like to sell it. If I don't call the pulled foot a quick glance at the PU to make sure he is in position to help. If you know someone is out of position to make that call, then no sense in asking for help. Players and coaches can see if he is out of position and asking him for help just makes it look like a yes man call.