ASA new obstruction

DaveASA/FED · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 30, 2004, 08:51am

ASA rules 12U R1 on first, fly ball to Right field, runner leads off ball caught and R1 heads back to 1st, fielder throws to 1st. F3 is standing in front of the base to catch the ball, contact was made prior to F3 having possession of the ball. I call dead ball, obstruction runner is back on first. Defensive coach says "she had room to slide in without hitting her." He is correct, she was standing with her legs slightly apart and if the girls would have made a perfect slide she could have gotten her leg to the base if she stretched. Anyway this brings up my question. Is it OBS any time that contact is made prior to the fielder having possession of the ball? My thought is yes. So if the fielder even had a foot in front of the bag, leaving 6" of bag exposed if the runner slides into the foot and contact is made prior to the fielder having possession of the ball I would have OBS runner safe. What do you all think?

Bagman62 · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 30, 2004, 09:21am

Dave, New Obstruction has many unanswered question and is causing umpires to add their own interpretations to the rule, I have found that we have to SELL like SELL every time we make the OBS call because that Other Umpire called it different and here are some questions that require interpretations.

1. If fielder has legs spread and is standing 2 3 feet in front of the base is she blocking the base?
2. If the fielder leaves 4 to 6 inches of the base open is this OBS?
3. Catcher sets up in the base line blocking the plate as Runner is coming from 3B at what point do you SIGNAL OBS, 3 ft, 6 ft, 15 ft or when the Catcher actually blocks the Plate?
4. Can you have Block, Catch, Block and Tag without OBS being called?
5. What is the call when you have Catch, Block, Tag, Dropped Ball, fielder blocks base and picks up ball tags runner out or what if another fielder tags the runner out while the original fielder is blocking the base.

I have umpired games or watched games where every situation described occurred and their has been conversation in the umpires room regarding every call and we could not come to a unanimous agreement on the correct call.

Good luck on sorting it out

Dakota · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 30, 2004, 10:03am

Both of you are focusing on the wrong player.

If the fielder does not have the ball, the fielder may not impede the runner. Simple as that.

The runner is not obligated to take the part of the base the defense "gives" (corner of bag, space between legs, whatever). If whatever the fielder is doing causes the runner to slow down, deviate from the chosen path, or get blocked from the bag while using the path the runner has chosen it is obstruction, folks.

Was the runner impeded?

If yes, did the fielder have the legal right to impede (i.e. possession of the ball or fielding a batted ball)?

If no, OBSTRUCTION!

DaveASA/FED · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 30, 2004, 10:04am

My general rule in my mind at least (and i am looking for others thoughts) is if contact, or runner changes path etc(any requirement of OBS occurres prior to the ball being there then I have OBS. Think of it as if the ball was still in the outfield, would what just happened be OBS? Then call it. It doesn't matter that the ball was 1" from the glove now there is no difference between 1" 1 foot or 100 feet, if OBS occurres prior to possession of the ball then they are covered under the OBS rule. Now some of your situations are different than mine but using the same thought pattern I'll try to answer them.

1) If fielder doesn't have ball and OBS ocurrs (runner contacts her, changes course etc) I have OBS.
2) If Runner contacts fielder prior to them having the ball-obs.
3) At the point it occurs. When runner changes course to avoid her contact it made etc.
4) Depends. You can block the base as long as you have possession prior to OBS occurring, meaning the runner doesn't alter her running or contact you prior to you haveing possession of the ball. Once you have possession of the ball it can no longer be OBS (at least on the fielder with the ball!)
5) At first I thought if she had the ball when the first block was made she was ok, but the more I think about it if it happened exactly like you said I would have OBS when she lost control of the ball and was still blocking the plate, it is a HTBT depends on if runner is trying to get to plate at that point but if IMO at the time if anything that would qualify as OBS occurred without possession then I would call it. And IMO again if 1 fielder is doing anything that would qualify as OBS while another is getting the ball I would rule OBS. Here are two things I can see,
Runner slides and you have the tag and dropped ball, no OBS yet,
1) now runner tries to stand up to touch plate pulling feet away from fielder while doing so no further contact was made with F2 meanwhile F1 gets ball and touches runner, then I have an out.
2) runner tries to keep moving feet to touch home plate and F2 is in her way and contact is made keeping her form touching the plate while F1 gets ball and tags runner. In this case I have OBS on F2 runner is safe at home.

Again these are just my opinions I am very interested to hear how everyone else would call these.

DaveASA/FED · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 30, 2004, 10:07am

Dakota,
I think I am on the same page as you, I typed a long response while you placed yours.

Skahtboi · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 30, 2004, 03:16pm

It really is as simple as Tom said. What I see is that too many umpires are simply trying to overthink the rule.

whiskers_ump · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 30, 2004, 04:04pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Bagman62
Dave, New Obstruction has many unanswered question and is causing umpires to add their own interpretations to the rule, I have found that we have to SELL like SELL every time we make the OBS call because that Other Umpire called it different and here are some questions that require interpretations.

1. If fielder has legs spread and is standing 2 3 feet in front of the base is she blocking the base.
_______________________________________________
Yes, If runner reacts and alters her movement from A to B.
No, if she has the ball already.
_______________________________________________

2. If the fielder leaves 4 to 6 inches of the base open is this OBS?
_______________________________________________
Did runner react, change her course? Did fielder have ball? Could very well be.
_______________________________________________

3. Catcher sets up in the base line blocking the plate as Runner is coming from
3B at what point do you SIGNAL OBS, 3 ft, 6 ft, 15 ft or when the Catcher actually blocks the Plate?
_______________________________________________
When runner reacts because of the OBS.
_______________________________________________
4. Can you have Block, Catch, Block and Tag without OBS being called?
_______________________________________________
No, you cannot have 'block' prior to catch. - OBS
Could have block and tag if your saying catcher/fielder has
the ball prior to the block.
________________________________________________
5. What is the call when you have Catch, Block, Tag, Dropped Ball, fielder blocks base and picks up ball tags runner out or what if another fielder tags the runner out while the original fielder is blocking the base.
________________________________________________
OBS both cases.

I have umpired games or watched games where every situation described occurred and their has been conversation in the umpires room regarding every call and we could not come to a unanimous agreement on the correct call.

Good luck on sorting it out

JMHO

IRISHMAFIA · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 30, 2004, 04:10pm

THERE IS NO NEW ASA OBSTRUCTION RULE!!!!

whiskers_ump · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 30, 2004, 05:05pm

Got that message. My ears are still ringing. I wanted
to be the first to say that, but forgot to put in my
post.

TexBlue · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 30, 2004, 05:42pm

Quote:

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
THERE IS NO NEW ASA OBSTRUCTION RULE!!!!

Did our resident guru just yell??? I had a picture fall off the wall!

IRISHMAFIA · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 30, 2004, 07:00pm

Quote:

Originally posted by TexBlue

Quote:

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
THERE IS NO NEW ASA OBSTRUCTION RULE!!!!

Did our resident guru just yell??? I had a picture fall off the wall!

There was just a caveat removed

Skahtboi · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Jun 30, 2004, 10:21pm

Anyone left with any lingering questions???

scottk_61 · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 01, 2004, 08:30am

I heard this awful rumble in Florida yesterday.
It had this funny accent to it too.

Oh, it was Mike.
Nevermind.

Dakota · #14 (**permalink**) Thu Jul 01, 2004, 09:02am

What I want to know is why did ASA take a perfectly good obstruction rule, throw it out, and write a completely different one!

J/K, obviously.

I'm getting used to the new condition in which the same old OBS rule is invoked. Maybe by next season most umpires will be on the same page with it.

CecilOne · #15 (**permalink**) Fri Jul 02, 2004, 11:56am

OBS?
If whatever the fielder is doing causes the runner to slow down, deviate from the chosen path, or get blocked from the bag while using the path the runner has chosen it is obstruction, folks.

What?
If whatever the fielder is doing causes the runner to slow down, deviate from the chosen path, or get blocked from the bag while using the path the runner has chosen it is obstruction, folks.

What?
If whatever the fielder is doing causes the runner to slow down, deviate from the chosen path, or get blocked from the bag while using the path the runner has chosen it is obstruction, folks.

But #5 above is what is most difficult about the possession aspect of the ASA rule. The fielder, in ths case F2, is in the same position as when having possession and legally blocking, but then is illegally obstructing because of dropping the ball.