verbal obstruction

[ref5678]

Chatter has always been a touchy subject around the leagues I work for and now its even touchier. I was observing a youth game the other day in which the catcher called out the batters name and number(got it from the scorebook) which distracted the hitter and the batter got nailed in the side. Now i know in hs ball they should not be paying attetion to the catcher, but what about youth ball where do you draw the line if you do.

[3afan]

in our local league (USSSA) any and all chatter & chanting is OK until the umpire determines it to be "unsportsmanlike", and thats entirely the umpire's judgement. the case you spoke of would have been judged unsportsmanlike - at least i hope it would - and the catcher would have been warned, then restricted to the bench if it happened again.

[Dakota]

Many of the kids on our youth teams know & socialize with each other away from the fields. Girl-talk among them is fairly common... between catcher & batter, between batter and opposing bench, etc. But, it is pretty easy to tell the difference between mutual gossip / teasing, and disruptive behavior.

What you describe was not mutual, but one-way disruption and was crossing the line. In ASA, there is no provision for restricting to the bench, but since the batter got hit due to the distraction, ejection without warning would have been justified.

[wadeintothem]

Yes - chatter is a touchy subject. I've been appealed to many times on the "hey batta batta swing" thing in particular.. I dont call that, nor do I consider it unsportsmanlike - this one is a closer one since it is so player specific.

I'm going to disagree with Dakota on this one - as I doubt I would have ejected the catcher. At most a warning to the coach.. AT MOST (if anything at all).

I'm picturing the situation.. pitcher getting ready to toss the ball.. catcher talking .. batter says "Huh?" and turns her head and gets beaned.

I consider that a "hope you learned your lesson" category. When someone is tossing a missle at you.. pay attention.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by wadeintothem
Yes - chatter is a touchy subject. I've been appealed to many times on the "hey batta batta swing" thing in particular.. I dont call that, nor do I consider it unsportsmanlike

If it's coming from an opposing player or coach, you should as it is obviously directed specifically at the batter.

I'm going to disagree with Dakota on this one - as I doubt I would have ejected the catcher. At most a warning to the coach.. AT MOST (if anything at all).

Not overly fond of ejecting a player either, but obstruction is not the call here. It is unsportsmanlike conduct and the penalty for that is an ejection. I wouldn't do so without having warned the coach first.

I'm picturing the situation.. pitcher getting ready to toss the ball.. catcher talking .. batter says "Huh?" and turns her head and gets beaned.

I consider that a "hope you learned your lesson" category. When someone is tossing a missle at you.. pay attention.

Tell them that when they are loading the player into the ambulance. If the father is there, you better be fast on your feet and have the car running.

I agree that players should be responsible for paying attention to the game at hand. I do not agree with coddling the players in the "it isn't fair" blanket with which many parents like to cover their kids.

However, there is no reason, NONE, for a player of one team to address their opponent in anything short of a congenial manner.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
Not overly fond of ejecting a player either, but obstruction is not the call here. It is unsportsmanlike conduct and the penalty for that is an ejection. I wouldn't do so without having warned the coach first.

I wasn't saying I definitely would have ejected without warning, but given that this was behavior that is a definite no-no, and that no coach should be condoning, and that it resulted in a dangerous situation, ejection without warning would be justified, especially if the kid HBP needed to be tended to.

A warning is OK, too, so long as no one actually got hurt.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by wadeintothem
At most a warning to the coach.. AT MOST (if anything at all).

I'm picturing the situation.. pitcher getting ready to toss the ball.. catcher talking .. batter says "Huh?" and turns her head and gets beaned.

I consider that a "hope you learned your lesson" category. When someone is tossing a missle at you.. pay attention.

I suppose you also would not award the base - no attempt to avoid. This is yute ball, not MLB.

[TexBlue]

I do quite a bit of PONY ball in North Texas, La, and around Austin. Get to go to Harlingen this year. I think that's a province in Mexico, not sure.

Anyway, PONY allows the catcher to talk to the batter. She just can't call her name, number or raise the volume of her voice while the ball is in the air. I've heard everything from "Your shoe's untied" to "Are you the one that's been dating my boyfriend?" This is my favorite as it was asked by a 11 year old catcher who was from about 4 counties over from where the game was. I think it startled me more than the batter. By the time the at-bat was over, I was almost laughing out loud.

I even had a catcher for 2 years who barked. She had 4 different barks. Everything from a Chihuaha to a stinkin' Rottweiler. The first time she did the Rottweiler, I jumped and tapped her on the helmet with my clicker and told her to chain that dog up and don't let it out anymore. She giggled and said OK.

As long as it's clean, fun spirited and non personal, I let it go.

[wadeintothem]

Originally posted by Dakota

I wasn't saying I definitely would have ejected without warning, but given that this was behavior that is a definite no-no, and that no coach should be condoning, and that it resulted in a dangerous situation, ejection without warning would be justified, especially if the kid HBP needed to be tended to.

A warning is OK, too, so long as no one actually got hurt.

I dont know man, sometimes there some much hooting and hollering going on it our league i must make a concerted effort to concentrate. The girls are always doing one cheer or another. This could be a warning.. since like i said its so player specific.. but I doubt there would be an ambulance (overly dramatic) (this is YUT not MLB) and I'm thinking to categorically declare that this is an ejection worthy offense is a little over the top. I can see a warning; which would likely solve the problem.. but to toss a girl for saying something like that is a little rough (this in YUT not MLB). Now if there was an ambulance or injury.. then you can start talking about ejections.

I'd think about giving the base despite her lack of effort to avoid

I agree with TexBlue.. as long as it is not mean spirited - I let it go.

[mcrowder]

Nothing wrong with the cheering - Dead Bird (and it's friend Dead Worm), or hey-batta-batta-swing from the infield are fine, and semi-normal. However, catcher using the batters name or even the catcher yelling swing is across my line.

I think the biggest problem here is that there are no REAL rules to go by here, and this area is one of those that will have the widest range of discrepancy from umpire to umpire.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by mcrowder

I think the biggest problem here is that there are no REAL rules to go by here, and this area is one of those that will have the widest range of discrepancy from umpire to umpire.

Speaking ASA

I think 10.9 pretty well covers it.

[wadeintothem]

I think you are right about the rules.. but I'm not sure how it could be written to clarify it more.

How many allow the catcher to say swing?

I have never stopped a catcher doing that. I could be the one who is way to lenient here... One thing I have is allota time behind the plate as a catcher.. and one who talked.. so I always think of how I did it; and I was rarely even warned and never ejected... that may lead to my leniency. A catcher talking smack to some degree is as much a part of the game as anything in my personnal view... I could be off base as I am applying Baseball experience to how the league wants it done in Softball.

I've been wrong on this board before and learned.. I can only promise to be wrong in the future!

[wadeintothem]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

Speaking ASA

I think 10.9 pretty well covers it.

I dont. Saying a persons name is not insulting or disparaging. A catcher saying swing also does not constitute that.

I enforce it in that manner as well. If catcher said "janice you suck" .. that fits.. if they said "janice swing" .. while a little cheap.. it doesnt in and of itself violate 10.9.


I would guess you are using the "other" part of that rule to come to the violation.. but enforcing it so strictly doesnt seem to fit in the 1st sentence of that rule.

[Edited by wadeintothem on May 3rd, 2004 at 03:06 PM]

[DaveASA/FED]

I have always had a no name or number policy. If I hear it I give a warning, to player and coach and it has always solved the problem. I guess I have never had anyone ask me about disallowing it to the point where I would have to give a rule to support it. I see everyones points and you are right in the fact that it is a very large gray area. What I see as unsportsmanlike you might not.

[mcrowder]

10.9 is nice as a starting point, especially if you end up having to argue it with a coach.

However, even with that rule in the book, there is a VERY wide disparity of things allowed/not allowed by various umpires. It can be different from game to game of a doubleheader if the umpires switch spots.

I've seen umpires toss a catcher for the mildest, "SWING" on the first offense. I've seen others allow the catcher to say whatever she wants, constantly all game, without any admonishment from the umpire at all (even after requested/suggested by the batting coach).

If the book (or at least the casebook) would give us some guidelines, we'd at least be closer in our application of this rule. Something like "Catchers may not verbally attempt to distract the batter" or "Catchers may verbally attempt to distract the batter as long as no profanity (or no names, numbers, etc) is used." Anything to give somewhat of a guideline.